Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

'Boys' work night out

234 replies

thistimenextmonth · 07/10/2020 10:05

I am part of a 3 person senior management team where I work. I am in the middle of the other 2 in terms of seniority.

We have a team of 60 employees with 4 junior managers beneath us.

2 colleagues (male) have left the workplace recently and one of the junior managers has organised a few drinks to say farewell, my boss (male) and the other manager (also male) have been invited along with the junior managers and a couple of others on site.

I have not been invited and no other women have either. The reason given was it is a boys night.

This has only just happened so I am still reeling a bit. There are no other female managers which is why I am asking here if I should be feeling this uncomfortable about it? My boss hasn't said anything but when I mentioned to the other manager he seemed to 'get it' which is why I know the answer of it was a 'boys night' I feel disrespected and dissapointed. AIBU?

OP posts:
MsTSwift · 08/10/2020 07:24

What a fool that organiser is. Career limiting move there. This wouldn’t have been acceptable in my City law firm 10 years ago absolutely isn’t now.

I can only assume some of the more hard of thinking comments on this thread are from those who have no understanding of working in a professional environment. Cringing for them tbh. It’s not the equivalent of organising a stag do or a private mates night out or even a birthday.

It’s academic anyway as won’t be happening - reputational risk of meeting in a group bigger than 6 not worth taking

cantarina · 08/10/2020 07:25

I'm glad your boss gets it OP. And how telling that the organiser had been up to other sexist antics - excluding the women from training. That's exactly why it's worth questioning a "lad's night out" for a leaving do - it can display that a company is geared to exclude women.

Turangawaewae · 08/10/2020 07:36

This sort of issue sets a tone in a team. Women might not raise it, but they will notice and it will affect retention.

museumum · 08/10/2020 07:37

I genuinely am shocked how many women on here can’t see the issue and have laid into the OP.

If this is the attitude to women in senior positions at work on a vast majority female website we’ve no chance.

Notverybright · 08/10/2020 07:38

He shared that he had concerns about this manager because since training on site offered recently only men signed up - turns out he hadn't even mentioned it to the women! But was giving benefit of doubt that it was just a mistake. He has said he's going to speak with HR.

Bloody hell! I’m glad this will be getting investigated. As a pp said this is glass ceiling stuff. Look at the investigation into ‘men only’ networking events a few where the waitresses were sexually harrassed and sex workers turn up later, this type of thing still goes on.

LolaSmiles · 08/10/2020 07:48

Glad the OP's boss is on it.

There's the letter of work based event or non work based event, and then there's the overall company culture.

Everywhere I've worked leaving drinks or meals have been an open invite to the team and people are free to attend or not attend, then individual friendship groups will have their social events as they need to.

It's quite sad how many women on this thread are quick to sell fellow women out by telling the OP to accept blatant sexism and leave it unchallenged.

Mummyoflittledragon · 08/10/2020 08:04

Great your boss has got your back - and of all the other women in the organisation. As for your junior colleague, the silly boy is going to get himself into a lot of trouble if he isn’t careful!

Mummyoflittledragon · 08/10/2020 08:05

I forgot to refresh before posting - yes, Lola it is very sad.

RealBecca · 08/10/2020 08:16

Agree it's fair to fly to management as asterion said about how it portrays the company.

  1. It's not a night out, it's a leaving do.
  2. There are likely women junior to you feeling the same way and whilst the ibus isn't on you 'as a woman' to flag, I think you may have more clout raising it, partly because men may not have even seen the sexism and if they did then they may feel like they are overstepping and telling w9ken they should be upset by something.

So yes, needs raising because it's a specific goodbye event excluding women. They wouldn't get away with a night out excluding any other protected characteristic.

Asterion · 08/10/2020 08:59

So he's got previous. That doesn't surprise me - what a tool he is!

Good that your fellow senior manager has been informed, and will now follow up on the situation. This is how company, and societal, culture changes happen.

Like others on this thread, I'm astonished at the lack of awareness that this was blatant sexism, and how many were quick to defend this nonsense. Get some awareness, people!

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 08/10/2020 09:02

A junior manager did this? I'd let it go ahead and be managing the misogynistic little fucker out. Worked with men a lot and have my own business. This is totally out of order. Totally.

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 08/10/2020 09:09

I haven't read everyone's replies but I have just read yours OP and am horrified to see that you have been dealing with what is clearly done very shitty comments. I totally get this environment and this guy is 100% a problem. There's always one. Further down the ladder and bitter about it.

Kick him off the rungs if you can. Even better let your boss and colleagues do it. You know you can talk to them about this, you clearly have good relationships with them and they know you are sound, and part of the team. This little twat hasn't read the room at all. So is a stupid misogynist. It's just boring.

fromdownwest · 08/10/2020 09:22

OP - You come on a public forum and ask opininons, when they differ to what you want to hear youre reply is.

'I'm not an arsehole like some of the commenters here'

Then ironically finish with I hope you find peace.

I hope that you do not embrace any counter opinion in work by brandishing the person an arsehole.

Maybe the reason for not being invited is a bit more clear now.

fromdownwest · 08/10/2020 09:24

@marriedtodavegrohl

'A junior manager did this? I'd let it go ahead and be managing the misogynistic little fucker out. Worked with men a lot and have my own business. This is totally out of order. Totally.'

You would manage a person out of their job for not inviting someone to a post works knees up? It is so ironic the talk of bullying in the workplace, then these comments seem to be totally accepted as ok?

Skibideebapbapbap · 08/10/2020 09:24

Sorry don't know how to quote but what @honeylulu said with bells on!

Totally unacceptable, sexist and I despair at some of the views on this thread.

EBearhug · 08/10/2020 09:30

The fact that other male colleagues expected the OP to have been invited and were surprised she wasn't also indicates the organiser is out of order, for those of you who don't recognise the sexism.

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 08/10/2020 09:32

@fromdownwest yes because I know what this is. It's not about a drinks nights it's about working in a team. You may not understand this environment, or a professional environment but I do. These men are time bombs.

As are women like you.

IJustWantSomeBees · 08/10/2020 09:39

@MsTSwift

What a fool that organiser is. Career limiting move there. This wouldn’t have been acceptable in my City law firm 10 years ago absolutely isn’t now.

I can only assume some of the more hard of thinking comments on this thread are from those who have no understanding of working in a professional environment. Cringing for them tbh. It’s not the equivalent of organising a stag do or a private mates night out or even a birthday.

It’s academic anyway as won’t be happening - reputational risk of meeting in a group bigger than 6 not worth taking

I believe this is correct. I have very limited experience of working in a traditionally professional environment and my original comment said I thought it was bad but that the OP shouldn't make a formal complaint since it is a leaving do and so up to the organiser who they want to invite and what theme they want aka. 'boys night out'. But having since read through all the comments my view has completely changed and I'm so glad OP spoke to her boss. OP's colleague's behaviour is completely unacceptable and I'm glad that if something like this ever happens to me in future I'll know to speak out about it.

I hope you'll update us on what action HR takes, OP!

fromdownwest · 08/10/2020 09:42

I have worked in the professinal sector for many years, in and out of the city. I do understand the environment, however, you must agree that it has come on leaps and bounds from pre credit crunch.

A bit dramatic to lable me a time bomb, maybe I managed so long in the sector as I did not take everything to heart. Yes there were many eye rolling moments, and yes, times when I had to standup.

However, I would take this industry above a female dominated one. My friends in PR and HR talk of envy of a male dominated environemnt. The catty, backstabbing, popular girl cesspit that is these sectors is far worse than not being invited out for a drink.

fromdownwest · 08/10/2020 09:46

Ironically I can not spell Professional!

Best to add some ironic humour to this thread!

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 08/10/2020 10:33

Fromdownwest a sense of humour is a definite must. I had to develop an exceptionally thick skinned one but once through that it was all good and I loved working in those environments. So much fun, We would have kept away from HR and the team would have sorted someone like this out, as they are here. Even if it needs a nudge.

But these men are toxic. Like the (two) female bitchy bullies I've had the misfortune to work with they are not that good at what they do, not senior to you and will manipulate and undermine. Who has time to deal with that? From a new junior colleague. No. They will lie about you and everything is a battle. Best to get rid while you can easily. It's almost never 'just' drinks. Careers are made and broken on 'just' drinks.

Tbf the few men I've encountered like this were easy. The guys looked down on them for their obvious twattishness and like the op you never have to make much fuss. When everyone's assuming you're going and you're telling them you're not invited...it's pretty obvious what's going on. But to then have a culture of boys drinks you are not invited to becomes problematic.

Definitely something you can't tolerate. Not at a senior level.

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 08/10/2020 10:41

The biggest problems I've had at work have been from women though. From secretaries back in the day that begrudged doing anything for a woman (gladly ran around after the boys) to the woman who isn't amazing at her job and hates you for doing better.

Even a support person for the boss having an affair with him who was convinced I had my eye on him and told him so many lies about me he fired me. I didn't (he was in a relationship, my boss, she was fucking him and he reminded me of the penguin from batman).

He believed her BS and it's only later he found out the truth. It was his 'biggest regret' firing me apparently 🙄. She's long gone as he split with his gf and still didn't get serious with her. I lost a very very promising career in a very interesting and financially rewarding industry I was very new to. Now I work for myself and people like that are a distant memory.

billy1966 · 08/10/2020 11:00

OP,

So sorry that your VERY reasonable thread has been met with such nastiness and viciousness.

How awful it must be to have these people in your life.🙄

The optics of the boys night is awful in a Corporate setting.

As it's a leaving Do, it's even worse.

Any reputable company would frown utterly on it and would actively seek to distance themselves.

It sounds like he has form.

In your dealings with your fellow management team, I would focus completely on the optics within the company and the fact that when this becomes widely known, it could be used as an indicator of the Company's Culture.

In a world SO litigious, you could say you want them to know, that whilst it doesn't bother YOU, you want to FLAG that it is wrong, and sends out a very poor message, which you want THEM to know that YOU don't support.

It should give them pause for thought.

GabsAlot · 08/10/2020 11:05

Glad your boss is loking into this op looks like its not a one off

MarriedtoDaveGrohl · 08/10/2020 11:15

TBF Billy it sounds like her colleagues have come to the same conclusion. He's thick as well as misogynistic if he thinks he can go into a company and cut out someone who is clearly a popular team member. The guys there clearly have little problems working with women and especially the OP (Facebook friends, lift sharing, the boss being so candid). So it's game set and match.

I loved the 'not sure he's management material' line of a PP. And as you say pointing out subtly he's a liability (no need for talks of hr etc as they are on side) will all help too. Phrases like 'loose cannon' 'a lawsuit waiting to happen' along with 'do we know why he left his last job' and finally, the most damning of all..., 'not much of a team player is he?' 'not sure he plays nicely with others'. 😁

I'm firmly of the belief that you don't stay in a room with a snake. It's a snake, it can't be contained and it will bite ( actually I quite like snakes but still. They are what they are).