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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

'Boys' work night out

234 replies

thistimenextmonth · 07/10/2020 10:05

I am part of a 3 person senior management team where I work. I am in the middle of the other 2 in terms of seniority.

We have a team of 60 employees with 4 junior managers beneath us.

2 colleagues (male) have left the workplace recently and one of the junior managers has organised a few drinks to say farewell, my boss (male) and the other manager (also male) have been invited along with the junior managers and a couple of others on site.

I have not been invited and no other women have either. The reason given was it is a boys night.

This has only just happened so I am still reeling a bit. There are no other female managers which is why I am asking here if I should be feeling this uncomfortable about it? My boss hasn't said anything but when I mentioned to the other manager he seemed to 'get it' which is why I know the answer of it was a 'boys night' I feel disrespected and dissapointed. AIBU?

OP posts:
BlackAmericanoNoSugar · 07/10/2020 13:39

[quote fromdownwest]@BlackAmericanoNoSugar - Based on your posting, maybe it is not your gender that would cause a non invite....[/quote]
Very true. Grin

Wakemeupwhenthisisover · 07/10/2020 13:41

@thistimenextmonth
I don’t create issues out of nothing.

OoohTheStatsDontLie · 07/10/2020 13:44

I dont think there is any place for 'girls nights' or 'boys nights' in the workplace to be honest- apart from being morally dubious they are leaving themselves open to claims for sexism and bullying etc.

It's different if small groups of work friends get together and go out, so if there were a group who do things together as a group or in pairs etc outside work then it's ok for them to organise, they should just say 'due to the rule of six we had to stick to Paul's personal friends only this time'. But to openly organise a work related event, in work, for just one sex, is really stupid of them

vanillandhoney · 07/10/2020 13:47

I really can't see the issue with this at all. Not everything has to be inclusive of everyone, all the time.

We regularly had girls nights out at work - is that wrong too?

OoohTheStatsDontLie · 07/10/2020 13:48

I think the people telling you to get a grip are wrong. I always say, if you're not sure if something is sexist, put another group in for 'men' or 'woman' and ask yourself if that's acceptable?

Would they be comfortable with a 'night out - whites only'? If they said to someone 'ah sorry you're not invited, its nothing personal, no other blacks / disabled people / gay people have been invited either' would people be calling the groups not being invited, snowflakes, for not wanting to put up with it? I'm guessing not so why should women put up with it?

wineandroses1 · 07/10/2020 13:50

I’m amazed that on a site like this there are so many misogynistic and/or obtuse people posting. So depressing.

For the hard is thinking - it’s a LEAVING DO! Not a bloody lads night out (except in the mind of the stupid junior manager and the cohort of handmaidens commenting on here). A leaving do is for colleagues to say farewell to whomever is leaving. “Colleagues” isn’t limited to men and should include women too. 🙄

Original poster
thistimenextmonth · 07/10/2020 13:52

@Wakemeupwhenthisisover asking a question on mumsnet is creating issues? If you have nothing constructive to add why bother?

OP posts:
IJustWantSomeBees · 07/10/2020 13:56

@BlackAmericanoNoSugar

I'm a bit of a confrontational cow so I know that if I were in your position I would complain loudly. However, it's probably a better approach to start dropping phrases about the organiser like "not a team player", "not able to get along with a wide variety of people" and "not encouraging of diversity in the workplace" and therefore possibly not management material.
I really like this idea. Especially since they've casually left all the women out, dropping casual yet clear, pointed hints sounds very fitting!
EBearhug · 07/10/2020 13:57

The rile of 6 is only relevant in that if there are more than 6 people to invite, then you need to think up more creative ways round it to make sure people are included, be it postpone, online, multiple small gatherings, etc.

Diversity in the workplace means little if there's no inclusion.

Elizaaa · 07/10/2020 14:00

It's farewell drinks to colleagues that we all work with where the only reason I'm not invited, when the other senior managers are is because I'm a woman

It might be because they've only invited people they like.

If the whole department/company hasn't been invited, its private drinks.

Organise your own drinks and see who comes, that might give you your answer.

IJustWantSomeBees · 07/10/2020 14:01

Reading a lot of these replies has changed my mind somewhat. I do think this should be addressed since it sets a precedent for it being acceptable to leave a specific group of people out. As someone said above, leaving drinks should be an opportunity for ALL colleagues to say goodbye, so it is just plain weird behaviour for one manager to decide who is and is not invited. Also, business deals and promotions are often decided upon outside of the office, as someone again pointed out, so this exclusion needs to be squashed

OoohTheStatsDontLie · 07/10/2020 14:05

People are saying that they might have only been asking people they like.
Firstly the OP says she gets on with the one doing the organising.
But if that's the case, and she is wrong, they should have organised it out of work time, or said it's just for a few close personal friends of the man leaving. Leaving people out of a team thing because you don't personally like them is verging on bullying behaviour. But in any case the organiser has actually come out and said he is not inviting the OP purely because she is a woman. Whether this is true and it's actually an excuse for another reason or not, she has to take this at face value.

19lottie82 · 07/10/2020 14:08

I don’t see the problem. I have been on many “girls nights” out when I have worked at various companies.

flyingant · 07/10/2020 14:13

I'm on the fence, but could it just be that the person who is leaving wants a night out with his work friends, and they happen to be men? Does he socialise with the men who are invited and not the people who have not been invited? Or has every single man at the company been invited? (I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if I have missed this).

MotherPiglet · 07/10/2020 14:15

So is it farwell drinks or a boys night?

Mummyoflittledragon · 07/10/2020 14:18

@1forAll74

Just take the leaving man out for drinks yourself on another night,then you will feel special like your special self again.
No.

How about inviting him out on the same night and watch him flounder. Then discuss it with your male counterparts. I hope they all refuse to go.

Cheeseandwin5 · 07/10/2020 14:24

@thistimenextmonth

No it's not paid for by the company.

Sorry than I don't think you have any excuse to complain- unless you invite everyone every time you go go out socially with some one from work.
I read it as male friends going out, who happen to work together.
You are not invited, thats it. Its not a gripe against you but what they want to do.
The Junior Manager inviting ppl maybe under orders from the person leaving on who to invite.
My former company was female dominated and we used to go on day trips and weekends which were ladies only affairs. It would be shocking if the management or anyone else decided we had to invite men or not go.
Also unless the OP has seen the guest list she doesn't know who else maybe going from outside the company.
As others have said those agreeing with this stance would then obviously also agree that hen dos, birthdays, maternity, or baby blessing could only take place if either no one from the company went or everyone did.
Sorry I doubt anyone would be agreeing with this if the shoe was on the other foot.
I wonder if the OP can say hand on heart she has never been to a social event for a colleague where all the employees weren't invited.

Newkitchen123 · 07/10/2020 14:29

There are 60 people there
6 are going out
OP is not one of them
53 other people are not going either
Are they all women?

Original poster
thistimenextmonth · 07/10/2020 14:49

@Newkitchen123

There are 60 people there 6 are going out OP is not one of them 53 other people are not going either Are they all women?
This is not the point. I mentioned the senior management team managed 60 people for context in the size of the team we work in.

All of the managers and supervisors are male except me, I am the only one not invited from the management team. This is not a group of lads going out after work, there are managers and supervisors saying farewell to another supervisor and one of the client team.

I believe I have a good relationship with the other managers and supervisors, they all work shifts and I am more sociable than my boss for example and have never sensed an issue. One of the other managers assumed I would be going and offered me a lift and was surprised I hadn't been invited.

When questioned, the organiser who I have always got on with described it as being a boys night. So all other managers and supervisors are going out and I'm not invited specifically as stated by organiser because I am a woman.

Like I said this is not just the lads, this is the management team plus a couple of long standing employees, more than 6 invited. No obvious issues at work etc.

All I asked if I was being unreasonable to feel uncomfortable with that/dissapointed.

OP posts:
flyingant · 07/10/2020 14:54

Does the person leaving usually socialise outside of work with everyone on the management team and not you?

If yes, then YABU
If not, then YANBU

NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 14:56

I'll ask again for those who say it's fine and normal to organise leaving drinks for a team but not include the women

What industry to you work in? This would not have been at all acceptable in any of my workplaces and I've been working since the late 80s

I had no idea so many people still working in such openly sexist environments tbh

My current work is 95 men and 5 women

The idea that team or leaving drinks world be organised to exclude the women in those teams is just shit

Luckily the men I work with are normal and don't see women as a different species. They are also well aware you can't arrange work drinks for things like saying farewell to a colleague and exclude random people because of their sex or, to address the point, because you don't like them. Because it is divisive and out of order.

I think a lot of people must work in really sexist, unpleasant workplaces. It's never ok to exclude a team member from a team thing whether you like them or not.

I also think the suggestion the op isn't invited is because no one likes her supports the idea that many people do indulge in pretty childishness in the workplace.

I feel really lucky tbh that my colleagues are normal.

Elizaaa · 07/10/2020 15:05

How cringe to question an organiser on why you're not invited 😖

NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 15:07

Flyingant -she's already said he doesn't normally socialise with the senior management.

And to last post- how cringe for the answer in 2020 for a leaving drink to be, you and the others aren't invited because you're girls (women). Pretty bloody playground isn't it.

Original poster
thistimenextmonth · 07/10/2020 15:17

@Elizaaa

How cringe to question an organiser on why you're not invited 😖
I didn't ask, one of my colleagues did when he found out I wasn't invited.
OP posts:
AskMeOnce · 07/10/2020 15:17

YANBU I'm so annoyed about this on your behalf OP.

I'm sure the man who is leaving will be baffled that you haven't been invited to his farewell drinks and will miss out on the chance of saying farewell because you have a vagina Hmm