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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

'Boys' work night out

234 replies

thistimenextmonth · 07/10/2020 10:05

I am part of a 3 person senior management team where I work. I am in the middle of the other 2 in terms of seniority.

We have a team of 60 employees with 4 junior managers beneath us.

2 colleagues (male) have left the workplace recently and one of the junior managers has organised a few drinks to say farewell, my boss (male) and the other manager (also male) have been invited along with the junior managers and a couple of others on site.

I have not been invited and no other women have either. The reason given was it is a boys night.

This has only just happened so I am still reeling a bit. There are no other female managers which is why I am asking here if I should be feeling this uncomfortable about it? My boss hasn't said anything but when I mentioned to the other manager he seemed to 'get it' which is why I know the answer of it was a 'boys night' I feel disrespected and dissapointed. AIBU?

OP posts:
SkiingIsHeaven · 07/10/2020 15:20

I take it you wouldn't have gone anyway so no idea why you are still worked up.

Asterion · 07/10/2020 15:23

@SkiingIsHeaven

I take it you wouldn't have gone anyway so no idea why you are still worked up.
a) Why wouldn't she have gone? b) The issue is sexism in the company. That is worth getting worked up about.
Newkitchen123 · 07/10/2020 15:23

I'm self employed now but in my previous workplace if we went out as a group, whoever was a manager or not was not relevant. We went out with whoever we wanted to go out with.
I don't think you're BU to feel excluded but I do think you're BU to expect to be invited because you're a manager. More so because of the rule of 6

fromdownwest · 07/10/2020 15:26

@AskMeOnce - You are annoyed becase a random person on the interent has not been invited our for social drinks with her collegues?...

AskMeOnce · 07/10/2020 15:27

I take it you wouldn't have gone anyway so no idea why you are still worked up

...why would you 'take it' the OP wouldn't have gone?

Original poster
thistimenextmonth · 07/10/2020 15:27

@AskMeOnce

YANBU I'm so annoyed about this on your behalf OP.

I'm sure the man who is leaving will be baffled that you haven't been invited to his farewell drinks and will miss out on the chance of saying farewell because you have a vagina Hmm

I am friends with him on social media so we will keep in touch. This is not his doing, from what I have heard since, it is strictly the bloke who organised it, who had made the decision to not invite me.

2 of the managers have said to me they don't understand why but as I haven't talked about it anywhere but here about how it has made me feel , I don't know what the consensus is or if there is an issue he has with me personally or if it is just part of his culture to not include women.

I am surprised at what some people on here have said, accused me of and think is acceptable but hey, it takes all sorts. Luckily this has surprised me because it is unusual but I feel I am justified in my annoyance at this.

Take care all x

OP posts:
Louisianna16 · 07/10/2020 17:05

Whoever said substitute Black for Woman , then see how it flies is spot on.

This thread has really amazed me. So depressing - 2020 and the Handmaidens are amongst us .

I agree with OP , I'd like to know what the supporters of such discrimination do for a living, where this casual acceptance of what is text book sexism is so prevalent.

Are they dependent on husbands or male psrtners for their income perhaps, so smiling indulgently at the Boys and their little foibles is second nature? Necessary for survival?

No company worth its salt would accept this nowadays. Definitely take this further, OP.

BabyItsAWildWorld · 07/10/2020 17:26

I've found any of the replies to the OP depressing in their view and in the nastiness directed at the OP.

Not so much because she's a women being excluded at work, but just because she is a person being excluded at work.

What a potentially nasty bullying sad work environment for so many people.

It is not acceptable to exclude people at work.

If it's a friendship thing you keep it separate from work, and approach its sensitively in the work place e.g. don't chat about what an amazing time you and friend had at the weekend in front of the colleague you are not friends with. At work you are all colleagues.

I would have thought this was obviously the adult professional way to act at work.

For the OP being the only manager not invited to leaving drinks, because she is a women, or for any reason, is not acceptable It's exclusionary, unprofessional and hurtful.

SecretSpAD · 07/10/2020 17:32

Wow. There is a lot of sexism and finding excuses for sexism on MN isn't there.

SkiingIsHeaven · 07/10/2020 19:08

@Asterion and @AskMeOnce because the OP answered certain questions and avoids others. Please avoid answering things for a reason.

wineandroses1 · 07/10/2020 20:15

I don’t even know what the above message means.
Trolls and handmaidens abound on this thread.

timeisnotaline · 07/10/2020 21:39

@SkiingIsHeaven

I take it you wouldn't have gone anyway so no idea why you are still worked up.
Of course she would have gone to a collleagues leaving do? Not if it is at a strip club, but it is not acceptable to hold leaving dos at a strip club.
timeisnotaline · 07/10/2020 21:42

Please tell me you are raising it to the most senior manager. Simple language. ‘I’m hurt and excluded at the boys only leaving do for x, and that you’re all ok with it. I didn't think we were that kind of place and feel quite uncomfortable about it all.
And stare him down. And sound out other jobs just so you know what’s around.

OchonAgusOchonO · 07/10/2020 21:48

@timeisnotaline

Please tell me you are raising it to the most senior manager. Simple language. ‘I’m hurt and excluded at the boys only leaving do for x, and that you’re all ok with it. I didn't think we were that kind of place and feel quite uncomfortable about it all. And stare him down. And sound out other jobs just so you know what’s around.
Don't say you're hurt. This is not about you. It is about the fact your colleague discriminating against female colleagues and whether your organisation is willing to condone that.
NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 22:17

Hurt and excluded?

Jeez no sod that.

Look this looks shit for us as a company and the women who work here.

If the boys need a night aoK but I think we as senior management need to arrange a more even handed leaving do. Then they can do what they want another time.

OP is mates with the leaver fgs. Sounds like it's been organised by a 12yo.

There are ways to rectify this.

More than 1 leaving do is totally acceptable. General drink with whoever. Separate drink with mates. No probs.

For someone to arrange a leaving do, invite not close male management and not invite the woman is just bizarre.

ViciousJackdaw · 07/10/2020 22:27

@KatherineJaneway

Personally I don't see it as a leaving do, the people have already left. If, as a company you didn't organise something, or the individual themsleves didn't organise something, then this is just former teammates meeting up.
That's how I see it too. Some blokes who used to work together meeting up for a drink and then on to the strip club presumably.
NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 22:31

Well op is best placed to know the dynamics isn't she.

If it was a few mates meeting up out of work she wouldn't be pissed off!

It's a leaving do where men who are not part of their immediate group are invited but not the women.

It's shite.

NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 22:40

'strip club presumably'.

Really??!!

So a bloke at work assuming that the male senior managers will be cool with going to a strip club is just... Normal? To you?

I've not had an answer to this yet. But what industries do you all work in where this sort of thing is the norm?

I've been working since the late 80s and seen my fair share of sexist nonsense. But for women in 2020 to be saying, well. All the stuff on this thread is bizarre.

Men are people too you know? They aren't all the same. The generalisations about men not wanting to socialise with women, only talking about football and all being up for strip clubs is just weird. As weird as what has happened to the op...

Like something from. I don't know. A different culture or era.

Maybe some of the women on this thread are the partners of the men who organised this leaving do- is my guess!

Elsewyre · 08/10/2020 04:02

@thistimenextmonth

I think it bothers me because the other 2 senior managers have been invited but not me purely because I am a woman. If the team wanted to have a night out that's fine but when management is invited but only the men is my issue?
Did you know the 2 guys well?
Florencex · 08/10/2020 05:31

I am in two miss on this one. I don’t think leaving do’s should be “boys only” as even if work is not paying for it, it is work related and hence somewhat exclusive to others. On the other hand, in this case I don’t actually think it is a leaving do. All the leaving do’s I have been to occur on the last day of work, not after somebody has left. In which case this is some former colleagues getting together as friends, as such they can invite who they like.

Original poster
thistimenextmonth · 08/10/2020 06:23

Update.
Mentioned to my boss who had no idea I hadn't been invited, just assumed I had etc.

He shared that he had concerns about this manager because since training on site offered recently only men signed up - turns out he hadn't even mentioned it to the women! But was giving benefit of doubt that it was just a mistake. He has said he's going to speak with HR.

To clear a few things up for the ones so desperate to know that they are comfortable with acting like obnoxious bully's in a school rather than either ignoring a thread or explaining your opinion like an adult.

Yes I would have gone if invited, I have no issues in my workplace personally and yes, as an adult i would have known if it was personal.
No, it's not that they don't like me, I'm not an arsehole like some of the commenters here. Plus, this is a corporate environment not bloody school.
Yes it was a leaving do, people made redundant whilst on furlough which is why it is after the day they leave - and my team work shifts.
It was described as a 'boys night' only after the organiser was questioned about me not being included, not before. I can't believe this is what trips some people up here.

Thanks to the women who have given their opinions in a grown up and respectful way, whatever your view I appreciate it.

To the bully's and trolls, wow I'm glad I'm not you. I hope you find peace within yourself so you don't feel the need to be so nasty to others in future.

OP posts:
MJMG2015 · 08/10/2020 06:37

@thistimenextmonth

I think it bothers me because the other 2 senior managers have been invited but not me purely because I am a woman. If the team wanted to have a night out that's fine but when management is invited but only the men is my issue?
Well, they want 'a boys night out' - boys/girls night out is hardly unusual.

The fact that you are 'senior management' (go on, you can shoe horn that in a few more times yet) is completely irrelevant. They haven't invited the other women yet (but as they're not Senior management that doesn't seem to matter to you)

Your issue is feeling superior because you're senior management & you seem to think that gives you the right to be invited.

The junior is a bit of an idiot for organising a 'boys night out' as a leaving do, it should be inclusive of all colleagues - but you're just as bad thinking YOU should be invited because of your position.

Loftyloft · 08/10/2020 06:47

Sexism like this does matter - social ties are important when it comes to promotions and work relationships.

Whilst it’s not company organised, as senior managers and you are all aware of it, you should be making clear it is not acceptable for a gathering of colleagues to be illegally Meeting if more than 6, this reflects badly on the company. The other senior managers (who are invited) should be declining for that reason.

Original poster
thistimenextmonth · 08/10/2020 07:00

@MJMG2015 it's a matter of context you tool. Can you not read or are you just an arse.

Senior and junior management is significant because it points out that there are 3 and the other 2 have been invited so it's not like 'senior managers' haven't been.

Also the other women are not managers at all so it's not like everyone on their team has been invited but not them, I do think everyone should be invited fwiw but this point was the whole management team has been invited out to say farewell to another manager and not me, specifically because I'm a woman.

I can understand why people wouldn't invite you as you seem awful, but I'm not, I'm defensive because of people like you but I get on with people and like people, not people like you mind.

OP posts:
nosswith · 08/10/2020 07:11

The response of the OPs boss given it seems not to be an isolated incident is a reasonable one.

Work based social events can be used as a way to exclude people, even leaving events, and continue sexism, racism or harassment of an individual.

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