Page 2 | 'Boys' work night out

thistimenextmonth · 2020-10-07T09:05:56+00:00

I am part of a 3 person senior management team where I work. I am in the middle of the other 2 in terms of seniority. We have a team of 60 employees with 4 junior managers beneath us. 2 colleagues (male) have left the workplace recently and one of the junior managers has organised a few drinks to say farewell, my boss (male) and the other manager (also male) have been invited along with the junior managers and a couple of others on site. I have not been invited and no other women have either. The reason given was it is a boys night. This has only just happened so I am still reeling a bit. There are no other female managers which is why I am asking here if I should be feeling this uncomfortable about it? My boss hasn't said anything but when I mentioned to the other manager he seemed to 'get it' which is why I know the answer of it was a 'boys night' I feel disrespected and dissapointed. AIBU?

NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 10:52

Cry discrimination

Some people!

Say there was a team of 6 with 5 women and 1 man. One of the women is leaving. They say oh we've arranged a leaving drink but you're not invited because you're a bloke.

It's a shit thing to do.

seayork2020 · 07/10/2020 10:53

Maybe it is just a case of they don't like you as a person and not just female?

I am saying this as a possible fact not saying it is right or not

022828MAN · 07/10/2020 10:54

It's shitty behaviour and I'd let them know I think that, but also probably cut my losses as they sound awful.

NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 10:54

I can't believe some people live their lives with such a basic lack of normal human courtesy in the workplace.

And also live their lives saying you can treat anyone any way as long as it's not illegal.

What a depressing thread.

NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 10:55

The good news OP is that you're the boss and they've just shown that they aren't team players...

Womencanlift · 07/10/2020 10:55

@Malachite234

Why would you want to go drinking with a group of males anyway ? YABU, also maybe the juts don’t like you personally or feel they want to talk about things that they know wouldn’t interest you. Maybe their wives would give them a hard time if they were hanging out with a female colleague?

You are too sensitive. Get over it.

Well in that case the wives are part of the issue 🙄

A team event such as leaving drinks should include the full team. If they want a night out with just their ‘buddy’ and be all lads, lads, lads then say and don’t say it’s team leaving drinks

REDLIPSTICKANDNAILS · 07/10/2020 10:56

Are you the type of person who expects an invite to everything and one of those people who turns up to the opening of an envelope? Just accept you are not invited, stop basing it on it's because you are a woman or a manager or anything and just accept you're not invited.

NiceGerbil · 07/10/2020 10:58

Some of you work in really really horrible workplaces by the sound of it. I've never worked anywhere that leaving drinks weren't extended to the whole group. Unless it's a casual group of mates which it doesn't sound like this is.

I'd be really uncomfortable in a workplace as well where the men felt that they didn't want to mix with the women socially. Luckily I've never come across that either.

Original poster

thistimenextmonth · 07/10/2020 11:00

@NiceGerbil

The good news OP is that you're the boss and they've just shown that they aren't team players...

Thank you. I suppose it just surprised me a bit as we have a good working relationship, have a laugh when appropriate and have stuff in common.

OP posts:

Asterion · 07/10/2020 11:00

@REDLIPSTICKANDNAILS

Are you the type of person who expects an invite to everything and one of those people who turns up to the opening of an envelope? Just accept you are not invited, stop basing it on it's because you are a woman or a manager or anything and just accept you're not invited.

Have you actually read the OP's first post? Maybe try reading it again, especially the bit where no women have been invited, even though there are plenty of female colleagues.

M0rT · 07/10/2020 11:01

I work in a corporate workplace and this would not go down well. There are sometimes events organised where the majority of attendees are one sex, golf for example. But everyone is invited and some women do golf.
Also why does a junior manager think it will have no impact on his career to organise an event which excludes his female colleagues and a senior manager? No ambitious man in my workplace would chance that, even if they wanted to! Why does someone in your workplace think it will fly?

LannieDuck · 07/10/2020 11:02

I think this is a problem. Esp because you're a senior manager. If you don't deal with it, why would anyone else in your team deal with casual sexism in future? It's literally your job to deal with this.

You need to speak to your fellow seniors about the dreadful optics, and agree that this isn't a culture you're prepared to accept in your team. Even if it had been done accidentally... which it hasn't.

Establish a good precedent for the team, not a shoddy one.

Spam88 · 07/10/2020 11:04

Why would you want to go drinking with a group of males anyway ?

Why wouldn't she? I work in STEM, my colleagues are mostly male, I've been the only woman out drinking on more than one occasion. I get on well with them and enjoy socialising with them despite us having different genitals. And my DH doesn't seem to have any issues with thinking if I'm out with a group of men I might accidentally have sex with one of them, so we're all good.

I also totally disagree with PP's who say that if the company aren't paying then it's nobody's business. If it's organised in the workplace then it's work's business. If you want to arrange something with some colleagues who are also friends, excluding other colleagues you're not so friendly with, then you do so discreetly.

Hellothere19999 · 07/10/2020 11:05

I guess it’s kind of annoying but I wouldn’t really be bothered. I have been there when my boyfriend has been talking to workmates at the pub and it is so boring. They didn’t even talk about sex, which would have been mildly interesting. They are chefs and were waffling on about ovens. I feel like sometimes having girls there just ruins the vibe and I think it’s fine id rather be at home anyway hahaha

Original poster

thistimenextmonth · 07/10/2020 11:06

@NiceGerbil

Sorry missed the latest post.

No that's totally out of order. I'd be livid. How many women have been excluded across the board?

The fact they even cooked up this plan is bizarre. Oh let's arrange some leaving drinks. Who shall we invite? Just the men.

Erm. No.

There are 4 other women apart from who were direct colleagues who have not been invited either. It is a security team for a large company so not like we aren't used to working in a male dominated environment

OP posts:

Asterion · 07/10/2020 11:07

@Hellothere19999

I guess it’s kind of annoying but I wouldn’t really be bothered. I have been there when my boyfriend has been talking to workmates at the pub and it is so boring. They didn’t even talk about sex, which would have been mildly interesting. They are chefs and were waffling on about ovens. I feel like sometimes having girls there just ruins the vibe and I think it’s fine id rather be at home anyway hahaha

Asterion · 07/10/2020 11:07

@Hellothere19999

I guess it’s kind of annoying but I wouldn’t really be bothered. I have been there when my boyfriend has been talking to workmates at the pub and it is so boring. They didn’t even talk about sex, which would have been mildly interesting. They are chefs and were waffling on about ovens. I feel like sometimes having girls there just ruins the vibe and I think it’s fine id rather be at home anyway hahaha

[confused}

yetanothernamitynamechange · 07/10/2020 11:12

@Hellothere19999

I guess it’s kind of annoying but I wouldn’t really be bothered. I have been there when my boyfriend has been talking to workmates at the pub and it is so boring. They didn’t even talk about sex, which would have been mildly interesting. They are chefs and were waffling on about ovens. I feel like sometimes having girls there just ruins the vibe and I think it’s fine id rather be at home anyway hahaha

Yes, but they aren't talking about ovens because they're men - its because they all have the same job. The OP works in the same profession as these people. So, to use your example if you were also a chef you'd be just as likely to want to waffle on about ovens as your partner. Its not because you're a woman you find this less interesting.

022828MAN · 07/10/2020 11:13

@Hellothere19999

I guess it’s kind of annoying but I wouldn’t really be bothered. I have been there when my boyfriend has been talking to workmates at the pub and it is so boring. They didn’t even talk about sex, which would have been mildly interesting. They are chefs and were waffling on about ovens. I feel like sometimes having girls there just ruins the vibe and I think it’s fine id rather be at home anyway hahaha

Well yes it'd be weird having girls there as they wouldn't legally be allowed to drink and would seem an odd choice on a works night out. Having your colleagues who are WOMEN there though, I don't see as changing any kind of dynamic, unless things have changed over lock down and we physically need penises to enter buildings now.

OchonAgusOchonO · 07/10/2020 11:15

@Malachite234

Why would you want to go drinking with a group of males anyway ? YABU, also maybe the juts don’t like you personally or feel they want to talk about things that they know wouldn’t interest you. Maybe their wives would give them a hard time if they were hanging out with a female colleague?

You are too sensitive. Get over it.

Why would you want to go drinking with a group of males anyway

They're colleagues. What difference does it make if they are male or female?

also maybe the juts don’t like you personally

I have colleagues I don't like personally. That still wouldn't make it ok to exclude them from a leaving do.

feel they want to talk about things that they know wouldn’t interest you

If they're topics of discussion are not appropriate for the op, maybe they're not appropriate for a work related event. And if this do is organised at work, then it's work related.

Maybe their wives would give them a hard time if they were hanging out with a female colleague?

If their wives would give them a hard time for hanging out with a female colleague, then they have serious marital problems!

You are too sensitive. Get over it.

And that is why we still don't have full equality. Ignore the micro-aggressions. It's just uppity women being too sensitive.

OP - I completely get where you are coming from. It is totally unacceptable. I would definitely bring it up with your senior manager colleagues. If nothing else, it sounds like your company needs a policy on this. A "boys' night" for a going away do is not on. To be honest, I don't think any event organised through work should be limited to one sex or gender.

movingonup20 · 07/10/2020 11:18

I suppose it does depend if the other managers socialised with those leaving in the past. When I questioned why only his male colleagues were at a leaving party we hosted (after we officially split, I'm a mug) exh admitted that they weren't invited because they never came to wrk events and he felt 26 was a lot already (women were there because partners were invited plus a handful of kids hence having it in our garden)

yetanothernamitynamechange · 07/10/2020 11:19

Also - this sort of small thing does have an impact. Imagine if you were considering 2 people in your office for promotion - one of them is a really friendly guy, hardworking and you meet in the pub for drinks every Friday. Plus you went to his barbecue last weekend etc etc and happen to know he used to play hockey to semi-professional level because it came up in conversation and is a trained first-aider. He's very driven and competant. The other one is also hardworking. The decisions likely to be obvious, but on the surface it seems like its nothing to do with sexism.
Social bonds can matter, some people aren't so interested in cultivating them and thats fine. Other people take networking super seriously and thats also fine. But whats happening here is a whole body of people are being cut out of completely because of their sex. And that sort of small thing contributes to "old boys network" dynamics, or the very subtle sexual discrimination which goes on where a company pays lipservice to diversity but actually 90% of their senior managers are male etc etc . Obviously this isnt as big a problem for the OP as she is already senior, but it might explain why she is the only woman at her level.

edgeware · 07/10/2020 11:22

Tbh this happened in a former workplace of mine - every single man in the office was invited, not the women, under guise of ‘boys night’. I kicked of massively to HR. Not right on so many levels. Three colleagues going for a drink - not a problem. Calling it a boys night and inviting others too with that pretense - wrong.

emsyj37 · 07/10/2020 11:22

Nothing wrong with a work night out that's just for the men, or just for the women (we have 'girls night out' at my work or we did pre-Covid) - the difference here is that it is a leaving do. You include everyone who worked with that person when it's a leaving do. It's not a normal run of the mill night out. Absolutely not acceptable to exclude some people. That would be like arranging an office Christmas party but leaving out the women. Bizarre, not normal and not OK.

MakeAPeaCry · 07/10/2020 11:24

@NiceGerbil

Cry discrimination

Some people!

Say there was a team of 6 with 5 women and 1 man. One of the women is leaving. They say oh we've arranged a leaving drink but you're not invited because you're a bloke.

It's a shit thing to do.

This sums it up for me.

Ive been part of Ladies Nights at work before and so don't have an issue with a 'Boys Night'. But I have never been part of a Ladies Night in a workplace where there is just a one man left out - that would be shitty and we would have made him an 'Honourary Lady' and included him.