To leave my cult-obsessed DP?

[Abbeywell79]

My first time in AIBU but I'm getting bugger-all response elsewhere so I've got my big-girl pants on!

Been with DP for 7 years, 2 toddlers, both knackered but we generally have a solid relationship. Same outlook on life (or used to), views on parenting etc.

When Covid struck, dp kept warning me about how we were going to be given a vaccine with a microchip and we were all going to be controlled etc etc.

We had a huge row about it, I said I didn't want to hear such nonsense and long story short, we agreed we wouldn't discuss it any more otherwise it was going to damage our relationship.

Since then, things have been fine on the surface. Day-to day life has resumed. However, because he hasn't had me to talk to about his worries, he's found a load of new buddies online and he is now a fully-fledged member of Qanon who spout all sorts including Satanism in Hollywood, child trafficking for organ harvesting to keep famous people looking good, lizard people in the royal family, 9/11 faked etc.

I only know this because I set up a fake account so I could follow his groups so I know what he is reading and sometimes what he posts within these groups. Otherwise I wouldn't have a clue as he appears to be the perfect partner/dad the rest of the time.

I can't see a way back from this. I always said I would give things until after the US election (when Trump will apparently save the world and 'all will be revealed') to see if it will improve but I think he is so far gone I've lost the man I fell in love with.

My options seem to be:

1. Stay with him. That way I get to keep an eye on the lunacy and ensure he's not trying to indoctrinate our children as they get older
2. Split up. We are about to move 200 miles away to be nearer my family and I was planning on staying with him until we did that then at least I have support. But then it would mean essentially kicking him out then will I lose my kids to him every other weekend? I don't want them travelling and then I won't be able to monitor what he's telling them
3. Keep it under review. DC aren't being affected by it yet so wait until they're older or until his mask starts to slip and he can't contain his 'secrets' any longer

All options seem pretty depressing.

RuffleCrow

Contact social services with your concerns and tell them you want to leave to protect your mental health and your children's? Tell them you're concerned what he will tell them once you're not there to protect them - on weekends etc.

I would be interested to see the reply to this ? I bet he is a good dad and does things with his kids and doesn’t talk to them about it, If he does then maybe social can have a word but from experience Is this really about safeguarding with kids ? We would be going after families with extremely religious views and indoctrinate the kids from a young age and some of these religions if not balanced in a healthy can be dangerous. My ex is verbally abusive and emotionally, I told them what he said to the kids and what he done, nothing to do with conspiracies there reply was it has to be a very very serious safeguarding issues for them get involved and have a word.im not sure what the threshold is but if he is a good dad and his beliefs are kept separate leave SS to actually save kids lives that are in danger. Unless he really is brainwashing the kids and scaring them with Qanon And they are showing signs of being distressed and evidence of this Then social will have far more Serious abuse to deal with directly keeping children safe.

friendsoftheearth you have fallen prey to the belief that balanced reporting = giving 50/50 credence to different points of view. It simply isn't so.

The reason the current government has been criticised heavily by the media over Brexit is because they have blatantly mishandled it, lied to the public, obfuscated about everything (in contrast to the EU, who have made their documents public), lied, illegally prorogued Parliament to get their way and openly broken an international Treaty they had only just signed.

I suppose charitably speaking the media might have allowed them a 5% leavening of 'oh, but they meant well', but that's really more than they deserve - unless you're a Brexiter.

Anyone who has a knowledge of the history of conspiracy theories can clearly see how QAnon is simply a revival of much older conspiracies, specifically The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a Russian fake document which eventually became part and parcel of Nazi ideology.

lithub.com/the-incoherence-of-hate-reading-the-protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion/

It’s baffling that people really wish to ally themselves with such toxic theories which have a long history of being at the root of outbreaks of persecution against minorities in Europe and elsewhere.

I wouldn’t just leave without trying to talk to him first. He’ll hopefully see sense soon.

Would it be any worse than him following a religion blindly? (Although that in itself would irritate me), neither are based in fact

You can have a critical viewpoint and exercise some critical thought without being a QAnon nutter though

Yes you can of course, but I am open minded, so although I don't agree with the QAnon narrative, I am willing to hear them out at least. I am not so easily derailed by my own values, not to consider others. Some of their views are repulsive to me; but I am still interested in why they have come to that view and maybe op's dh is the same. She knows him better than anyone, and if he feels lost to her - vacant - then he probably needs some help from a GP as a minimum.

My earlier point is the world does feel rather messed up right now, it really does - nothing feel entirely normal, so anyone that is fragile or struggling are likely to find themselves somewhere like this (or worse)
I think we need to support each other, and be compassionate. I am hoping for op, and esp her young dc that he pulls himself together quickly.

pointy I am definitely not getting into a brexit argument on this thread, only to say that I DO expect reporting to be 50/50 as it used to be.

Both sides should be given adequate space and time to make their case, and be treated cordially. The audience listen to both sides with respect, and consider their own conclusions. That is what it SHOULD be like. It is a long way from that now - the tone from the media, the hatred and the toxic division that the current media presides over turns my stomach. Treating someone with respect when you are interviewing them should be the very least we should expect. The bullish, spiteful grotesque reporting now is so extreme, I sometimes have to turn it off. As do millions of others.

OP, I suggest you google 'delusional disorder'. This is something that can occur in relation to emotional difficulties.

You’d seriously leave someone for simply having different opinions to you..?

So what if he believes in conspiracy theory?
We all have different beliefs....
If it causes issues just don’t discuss it together surely.

You said he is a good dad and partner.
I honestly can’t believe so many people are advocating leaving him.

Swimminginroses not all opinions are created equal though. Not all opinions are harmless.

'Vaccines are dangerous' are an example of an opinion that isn't harmless. 'Gay people are depraved' is another.

I have a friend who’s gone down the same rabbit hole. I can’t imagine what it’s like living with someone like this.

However, would you feel the same way if he’d ‘discovered’ some equally nonsensical truths via a new religion? If he’d discretely become a devout Catholic or Muslim, would you be considering leaving him? As long as he keeps it to himself, what’s the problem?

This isn't a nice kind of different belief. It's a dangerous conspiracy.

It has been named as a potential domestic terrorist threat by the FBI. It has been tied to acts of real violence. www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2020/08/26/politifact-qanon-hoax-has-been-linked-to-violence-fox-news-greg-gutfeld-falsely-claimed-it-hasnt/

It is, as a previous poster noted, a repackaging of a blood libel.

And it's really cruel, too. Trigger warning for this next paragraph:
There's a current QAnon belief that Chrissy Teigan did not have a miscarriage but instead had a healthy birth and then sacrificed the baby to make sure that Donald Trump got sick with covid. They wrote this to her on her twitter page in response to her heartbreaking post about the miscarriage.

OP, I'm really sorry.

@Friendsoftheearth sums it up perfectly. Shutting down theories is bonkers! Why not discuss them - why does everything that can seem so far-out have to be shoved in the tin-foil hat basket? Do you feel the same towards ppl who believe in aliens or ghosts OP? @Abbeywell79

I think you need to examine your own rigid thinking, because debating conspiracy theories and even believing in some of them is not as uncommon as you think. Closing down the debate simply because you think it is BS smacks of someone not even able to consider different viewpoints. You might think it is far out and stupid, but not everyone has to agree with your world view. Listening to him, gently challenging and debating different ideas and theories is not indulging his fantasies or cult op, it is being intellectually flexible enough to know there are many strange things in the world, we don't have all of the answers - we never will, and some of the forums will simply be entertainment or your dh may be up completely taken in with it all.

You should also examine why you are so frightened by a different way of thinking, and challenge your own prejudice and pre conditioned ideas.

@SpaceOP

A lot of the theories have a grain of truth that’s how they are able to take hold. When people found out Bill gates held a convention in October last year about how New York would deal with a new Corina virus pandemic and having senior key members of the emergency services and Amy there it just fanned the flames. The event was called Event 201, it’s website is still up and it’s on YouTube. So yes I can absolutely see why people think ‘wait that’s a bit weird..’

Well, actually, no. Because lots of scientists have been warning that a global pandemic is likely to happen and that governments should be more prepared. And governments themselves were making plans etc. The problem for governments is that a) they only planned for one kind of pandemic and b) they didn't actually follow their own plans and preparedness. Eg the UK's plan, put in place I think about 10 years ago, included stockpiles of PPE which were supposed to be checked and renewed periodically.... well, that didn't happen and so they were caught wrong footed.

So no, there's nothing in the slightest bit suspicious about Bill Gates thinking about this and doing his bloody best to raise awareness.

And that a perfect example of some one refusing to understand why people get hooked in.

And yes I agree with a PP it is online grooming.

@Swimminginroses I know! What does it say about the closed-minds. How tragic we're becoming, no tolerance left is there.

That’s repellent, Nancy.

QAnon theories are not the equivalence of views that have been arrived at through educating oneself and reading a variety of opinions. It is a dangerous cult like belief system based on old racist stereotypes combined with fear and ignorance.

I wouldn’t split up over this..I’d be majorly disappointed however

We never hear a single negative word about the complete lack of direction of the Labour party, Starmer is able to sit on the fence about brexit, covid and all the rest without ever being challenged.

You haven't been listening very hard then.

How is it we have even have a MC titled man running the labour party?

Members of his party voted for him, it's called democracy.

@Babycham1979 The problem is that it is having an increasingly negative effect on our lives, and I'm concerned that it is going to get worse.

We can no longer watch the news (fake), films (evil), or go anywhere that requires face masks (pointless). If I want to do any of that it's on my own. The vaccine issue will come up soon and there is no way we will agree on that.

Any spare moment he has is sat scrolling through his phone lost in his little world.

So maybe I was incorrect in saying that day to day life has carried on as normal. He is already distancing himself. As I said, he's with us but he isn't 'present'.

@VenusTiger Well he believes the royal family are lizards that arrived from another planet, does that count?

Trigger warning for this next paragraph: There's a current QAnon belief that Chrissy Teigan did not have a miscarriage but instead had a healthy birth and then sacrificed the baby to make sure that Donald Trump got sick with covid. They wrote this to her on her twitter page in response to her heartbreaking post about the miscarriage.

Horrendous. OP, would telling him that give him the shock he needs?

There's a current QAnon belief that Chrissy Teigan did not have a miscarriage but instead had a healthy birth and then sacrificed the baby to make sure that Donald Trump got sick with covid

So instead of acting with outrage or disgust why not simply ask them to provide concrete evidence that this happened?

You are never going to get anywhere by shutting down the debate, you only really win the argument with a rational evidence.

Of course there will be no evidence, nothing concrete to support this theory/fantasy - but choose to dissect it instead. Welcome the opportunity to investigate the truth and the deceit with an open mind and without being patronising other people.

I have no idea if op's dh is in the throes of a MH crisis or not but she won't help him by simply shutting him down.

This is a really tough one. Luckily I can't see it ever happening to me but it is becoming increasingly common. It is dangerous and has led to many acts of violence already. Including a man armed with an assault rifle demanding to see the cellar of a pizza restaurant that was believed to be where they kept all the abducted children. There was no cellar. I couldn't live with someone who believed these things but then perhaps there is a way to get through to him if he he knows you are thinking of leaving him. For everyone crying tolerance of beliefs where does this end and begin? Would you stay with a racist or a misogynist?

Has he actually said he believes the lizard thing and all the other strange beliefs of this group, or just the chip with the vaccine? He might not believe the rest, just joined the group to follow the whole vaccine conspiracy.

IF he genuinely believes all this shite, and is checking out of your relationship, then you have 2 or 3 choices.

Report your concerns to your GP about his mental health and the impact it will have on the children and your concerns therein.

Tell him he needs to get counselling or you'll leave.

Just leave.

Anyone who believes all of that is (imho) dangerously unhinged and needs professional help. If he refuses to get it, then get evidence of his spiralling insanity and leave.

Its bad enough dealing with an ExH who is turning into a covid-denying racist, i don't think i could cope with all of the extra spicy craziness like you are on top!

Does he genuinely believe the RF are a family of lizards? Have you asked him to provide evidence for that? Are you saying that he actually says that to you, looking you in the eye, that he believes that is true? Or does he just believe in some of their Q thinking - the Trump angle or whatever? There is a vast difference between conspiracy theories and lizards dressed up as the royal family!! How much of this does he actually believe op?

If my husband told me to my face that the Royal Family are lizards I would already have scheduled an emergency app with a very senior and experienced psychiatrist, and we would be sitting in the GP's office now.