High achieving families

[Coldemort]

this isn't about politics disclaimer
So... I ended up down a twitter/wikipedia rabbit hole around the Javid family (most famous being Sajid, but brother Baz is also very high ranking, another brother a CEO, another a millionaire property magnate).
That family are first generation, working class. What is the family dynamic that makes them so very successful?
The Johnsons of the world, I get. When you have wealth, privalege and the best education money can buy, it makes sense you are going to be in the elite.
But what is the dynamic in working class families that produce such high achieving children? (I could reference other families, but the Javids are the one that caught my eye tonight)

There was a definite difference in work ethic between the European expat kids and Arab expat kids in the place I grew up (very few of us were from the actual place itself). The European kids were generally told to do their best and oh well, never mind, next time, at least you tried. The Arab kids were dumbstruck at this and worked hard to avoid being howled at by parents for the dismal failure of getting a B or less it was similar amongst the kids with parents from India or Pakistan. As a half European half Arab kid I was most put out not to get what I perceived as an easy ride

I doubt I'd have got as far as I have without the drive to push forward though. I think as long as you have that (whether innate or exogenous) you'll achieve degrees/status.

Sounds like a thinly veiled question of how the Brown People did it

Oh do grow up.

There are also cultures where education is deified, even if it’s not PC to say so. See, for example, the proportion of Indian second or third generation kids who take up grammar school places in north London. They are hugely overrepresented.

I’m Jewish and we at times were very poor growing up but if, for example, I needed a tutor to help me with a Maths topic, money would be found even if it meant eating the equivalent of beans on toast for a week.

Obviously generalisations here but I think they merit consideration.

The fact that there are whole families of these high achievers means, I’d think, that there’s something about how they were parented that plays a part in their success.

A nice thought.... however...you could say...... Work hard, stab friends and colleagues in the back, play games, entertain work politics and ignore others ideas and suggestions.... Keep eye on the prize and screw anyone who gets in the way

I agree.

Also, look at what we value as ‘success’. It isn’t always about leading and amassing power, things. These are traditionally very male-centric ideas of success, and I’m no feminist, but success as defined in this thread is a very narrow perspective on life.

Successful people work hard, don't make excuses, are considerate of others and don't let others' anti-intellectualism drag them down.

Many many many people do these things but are not classed as 'successful' because they don't get lucky and make big money, or they do less high-status jobs.

@Guineapigbridge

Successful people work hard, don't make excuses, are considerate of others and don't let others' anti-intellectualism drag them down.

I agree with the first two points, but disagree with the third one. Many successful people are ruthless and don't care who they tread on to get to the top.

DH is a high achiever in that his work is very niche, and was at the top of his game in his industry. He is now semi retired. He comes from a very poor background, and grew up not wanting to be poor ever again. We aren't rich, but I would say we are comfortable. He is the only one in his family who has done well though. The rest seem to have a poverty of aspiration.

In terms of academic high achievement, there is a poster whose children are exceptionally bright, and she had has several go to Oxbridge. Raising a large family, all of them without exception achieving so well academically is astonishing.

Really? You wouldn't think the Johnson family are high achievers? What on earth do people have to do to be high achieving in your world?!

Yes, they have money and privilege. So do lots of people who never do a thing with it.

IME it is down to the person more than anything.

Brought up in care, first generation with brains, school work was easy, no home support, produced children who are extremely bright with one being an actual genius and the other one probably is too.

What pisses me off is when expectations are down. No wonder so and so did drugs or broke the law when their home life was shit. No wonder they failed exams with no home support.

Make your own choices if you are alone. Nothing to stop you working hard with what you do have. Use initiative.

What interests me is when it’s whole families of successful people. What are the factors in their upbringing that make the difference?

As the OP says, easy to explain when it’s a family of privilege, less so amongst more humble origins. A factor that often strikes me in autobiographies is the role of mothers, frequently it seems there is an intelligent woman in the background driving learning.

@MitziK

Doesn't nobody have a story about how a girl/woman did it in the UK?

Without marrying a millionaire, at any rate...

Michelle Mone?

Hard work, drive, determination and a certain amount of brains. Well done to them

I don't have most of those so have and will never be a high achiever. But that's ok.

Many people work hard their whole lives and won't achieve what he has, it's more than this. It's more than sacrificing family time to put the work on to.
People like this are on a different level altogether, they see opportunities others might miss, they find different ways to get there, they are proving years of being told your no good wrong.
It's a specific mindset, hard work alone won't do it, just like hard work and working all hours won't make you rich. It takes opportunity, risk taking, huge amount of vision, drive, desire to prove people wrong etc.
Ive worked with people like this from ordinary backgrounds their perspectives whilst getting there are different quite unique and inspiring. There's a reason not everyone us like this that's because of the mindset needed.

"Successful people work hard, don't make excuses, are considerate of others and don't let others' anti-intellectualism drag them down."

Do you have evidence that successful people, in the career and monetary terms discussed on this thread, are particularly considerate of others?

This sounds more like a wish list of "what I would like my child to be".

Lol. Luck

Lol no. I set up my own business and it certainly wasn’t luck! Luck implies it just fell into their laps. Bullshit. I did a lot of research, I picked an industry carefully (and we’ve been busier than ever throughout lockdown so it was a wise choice), I took out a huge bank loan that I had to secure on my house so we could have lost everything. Worked bloody hard for the first 3 years and finally I am reaping the benefits. But it was not luck, and frankly I find that incredibly patronising to say when at one point I was on call 24/7. I don’t deny some people are lucky. But isn’t it odd how the harder you work, the “luckier” you get eh?!

Yeah, I wouldn't say being considerate of others is a recipe for success at all. The most successful people I know didn't have time to be particularly considerate of others, they just got on and did what they were driven to do.

Admiring the quality of being considerate of others is probably why we don't have so many female high achievers.

@Gobbycop

Hard work, resilience, bold decision making, risk and luck.

This

I think it is interesting that it is a sibling set who have all done well. I am thinking of Gordon Ramsay, who is obviously very successful (though I would argue, not especially considerate to others) while his sibling was sucked into drugs. Same difficult background (I think his father was an alcoholic) - one obviously very driven (signed for Rangers etc) one drifted into petty crime and drugs.

I agree with the ranges with security blankets for the wealthy and nothing to loose for those from a poorer background.
Its really hard to take the risks needed to be truly successful with responsibilities. It's much harder to gamble life savings when you've a family to consider or bills to pay.

Personality, work ethic and luck.

I study/research/teach career development and there's a theory that I love called planned happenstance which essentially says that successful career plans are a combination of:

Planning
Luck
Attitude and aptitude

I don’t know much about British Pakistani immigration in the 60’s or 70’s but I’d guess his family had more money and better connections than others in Pakistan to be able to migrate to the UK.

Being successful is not only luck but all success in life is partly luck.

Somewhere there will be a person who was just about to set up a business, that could have been very successful, but they got knocked off their bike and suffered a brain injury.

Luck is a huge factor.

We (meaning humans) don't like that, because we like to feel a) in control and b) deserving of rewards, but luck is a massive component in life.

Hard work + good luck, you need both.

@Russellbrandshair

Lol. Luck

Lol no. I set up my own business and it certainly wasn’t luck! Luck implies it just fell into their laps. Bullshit. I did a lot of research, I picked an industry carefully (and we’ve been busier than ever throughout lockdown so it was a wise choice), I took out a huge bank loan that I had to secure on my house so we could have lost everything. Worked bloody hard for the first 3 years and finally I am reaping the benefits. But it was not luck, and frankly I find that incredibly patronising to say when at one point I was on call 24/7. I don’t deny some people are lucky. But isn’t it odd how the harder you work, the “luckier” you get eh?!

Luck absolutely does play a part and you shouldn't be offended by that. It's not to say that hard work isn't the main reason you're successful but luck or chance plays a part in everyone's life and decision making.

Luck /chance can be big, life changing moments but often it's the small things - reading something that gave you an idea, meeting someone a party, the school you attended, the teacher you had who inspired you ........ all of this is luck or chance.

It doesn't (and shouldn't ) detract form your hard work because luck and a chance are often useless unless you have the right attitude to do something with it.

Capitalism relies on a large number of people staying at the bottom of the heap

Pray tell, how is that different from socialism?

We (meaning humans) don't like that, because we like to feel a) in control and b) deserving of rewards, but luck is a massive component in life

Humans also want to believe it’s just sheer luck as a way to justify why they haven’t got a business or whatever it is. By minimising other people’s effort and work it makes us feel better that we didn’t try it because what’s the point if it’s all random luck?!

Cognitive dissonance at its finest!

Personality plus. The plus bit is often the sort of childhood that will either: lead to long term poor mental health, suicide, addiction or other things you wouldn’t wish on anybody; and/or a drive to be seen to be successful. Someone with a more stable, secure and happy childhood will generally be less likely to feel the need to covet the admiration or approval of others, as they will know they will always be loved and approved of, anyway. A stable, secure, loved and happy person would not view having a perfectly ordinary career as remotely unsuccessful, anyway, because it isn’t.

Of course, the plus bit can just be that on top of having a driven personality and a clear idea of what you want to achieve, you end up in the right place at the right time for it all to really take off.