High achieving families

[Coldemort]

this isn't about politics disclaimer
So... I ended up down a twitter/wikipedia rabbit hole around the Javid family (most famous being Sajid, but brother Baz is also very high ranking, another brother a CEO, another a millionaire property magnate).
That family are first generation, working class. What is the family dynamic that makes them so very successful?
The Johnsons of the world, I get. When you have wealth, privalege and the best education money can buy, it makes sense you are going to be in the elite.
But what is the dynamic in working class families that produce such high achieving children? (I could reference other families, but the Javids are the one that caught my eye tonight)

I think sometimes sibling rivalry comes into play.

Cue a ton of posts stating that high achieving people are unhappy/uncaring/self-obsessed etc

In my experience there are just as many low achieving people that fit these descriptions.
It’s just the way some people are.

But it’s a good way to keep the masses in their place - peddle the myth that they wouldn’t want success. That’s for other people

It is also true that high achieving people are not always the nicest. They might have the interpersonal skills to get what they want, but they don't always care for people deep down. They are also usually facilitated by others, often women, who do the unrecognized work.

I read something that there is a higher proportion of psychopaths amongst CEOs/boardroom level people than amongst the population at large.

@HelloMissus indeed.

All of the people I mentioned are actually much happier now they are not living in the adverse conditions they started in. They are also all very caring because they know full well that the shit can hit the fan for anyone at any time.

I know plenty of perfectly pleasant and happy high achievers (and a few on the edge of burnout) and equally many in minimum wage jobs who are perfectly happy with their lives (as well as a good number who very much are not).

Being a high achiever doesn't equal automatic happiness. Equally not being a high achiever doesn't equal automatic despair.

Regarding Margaret Thatcher, don't forget the influence of marrying a millionaire (which had a greater financial meaning in the '70s) who was well-connected added to her capabilities though she tended to emphasis the hard work rather than having financial resources and connections.

This is probably because as is often the case you see many with all the financial resources and connections that still don't utilise them or become high achievers. Connections and wealth do help but if the intelligence and ambition is not there, no amount of wealth or connections can help.

@Guineapigbridge I’m halfway through her Becoming audio book. It’s narrated by her. She’s bloody amazing isn’t she. So is her husband. I’m really enjoying it.

See also the Kanneh-Mason family. Their parents are definitely doing something right...

Luck can also mean being born with the qualities such as drive and ambition that enable success. They cannot always be learnt or instilled.

@CounsellorTroi

Luck can also mean being born with the qualities such as drive and ambition that enable success. They cannot always be learnt or instilled.

This, absolutely. Luck can be more about an accident of genetics!

@Didkdt I agree with maths. It’s a shame because it’s a really interesting topic but people have all the incorrect attitudes to it. Maths is a topic which is supposed to get hard, it’s problem solving and see time and time again pupils come to high school where the content becomes harder and they just think their natural Ability has ran out or ‘I’m just not good at maths’ this is often a belief strengthened by parents who will say ‘you must get that from me - I was always cheap at maths’

Of course, plenty of people struggle with it but it is one of those topics where resilience is the biggest factor of success - although I don’t doubt a natural fortitude isn’t beneficial.

I think it is often a personality trait/genetic inheritance, rather than simply hard work. Lots of people, working class or otherwise, work bloody hard every day, putting in the hours, caring that bit extra about their job/performance than others around them, going the extra mile, but most are not likely to become significantly successful in the sense of wealth and power. I think it's an extra 'something', or more than one 'something' - determination (setting a goal and doggedly heading towards that goal), confidence, self reliance. Whatever it is, I wish I had some of it!

Being a high achiever doesn't equal automatic happiness. Equally not being a high achiever doesn't equal automatic despair

That's not what I was arguing. Plenty of people have a nice balance between reasonable success and reasonable happiness. I was talking about people who make it to the very top. Perhaps this is more so in organizations than if they run their own business, but what I've noticed is that these people often are a tiny bit selfish (in a way that women are not trained to be) and don't over-think the consequences of what they do on others. That doesn't make them 'bad people', but it's also true that very nice, very considerate people often struggle in corporate or competitive environments. So do people who don't have great self-esteem for one reason or another. Again, I find more women are like this in my own field.

I'm talking about being at the very top though, not just taking up a profession or running a small business. I agree this is nothing to do with happiness either.

That's an interesting point I hadn't thought of it like that.Perhaps that is one of the reasons why there is such a disparity between the number of men and women in top positions.

Very hard work, creative mind, business acumen and I’m sorry to say but.....a bit of luck.

Has to be an element of luck, because that would suggest anyone can achieve anything and that’s not true.

They're 'outliers' and your chance of getting to be like them is lower now that at any time over the last 200 years

The gap between rich and poor is greater than ever. Focusing on them is useless because it's really bad for your mental health to try to be like them - as your chances of making it is statistically negligible.

It's just dangerous thinking, might as well think 'it could be me' when it comes to a lottery ticket.

Far better to seek structural change across our tax breaks for the rich/let's award all our contracts to our mates politics.

Or indeed any cause, no matter how small that takes you out of 'self' and self blame/self criticism when you don't 'make it'.

IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT, society is weighted heavily against you.

women at the moment are also taught to aspire to achieve life balance....once they have kids many no longer want to do the hours/travel necessary to progress in your mid-30s-40s. Obviously not all etc. Equally, people's values are different once kids etc kick in. LOts of people talked here about wc dads working all hours for a pittance - is it high achievement for upper mc dads in the next generation doing the same?

It baffles me how people don't understand how luck plays a part. Everyone I know who's been successful, while incredibly hard working they've had a string of chance experiences to get to where they are. E.g

Footballer - extremely talented player. However was spotted at a young age at local match by an agent who took a shine and was pretty much manufactured from the age of 14 to be a professional. Sure he had amazing skills to be spotted at that age, but there was a 100% element of right time and right place. As the probability is there were many players equally as talented who did not have that opportunity to be spotted.

Off shore manager (not actually sure what in though). Again worked incredibly hard to get the qualifications. However, was inspired as he used to visit a family member in another country who lived where the helicopter landing/ boat docking area was for this off shore place. He saw all the fancy men in suits in their private helicopters and was inspired. Was able to talk to people who worked there to get a foot in the door. And years later he was able to become one of those fancy men in suits on a private helicopter....still worked very hard to get there though. But it was chance that he witnessed something when young to inspire him, and luck he was in a position to start making some connections.

Lady I know who owns multiple pharmacies across the North. The premises popularity are very much dependent on the location as has be in a high residential/ traffic area. Just as she made the decision she wanted to go into this business the perfect location and property came up for sale. Most people who want the same kind of location have to wait maybe 5-10 or more years for this opportunity. Hers came up within a couple of months. She worked 7 days a week about 12 hours a day to get it up and running and got her self to a position where she could expand to more premises. But luck played a massive part.

And I also think its disrespectful to not consider luck, if you think of everything in terms of you get out of something what you put in. What does that mean for people who are chronically Ill and all their effort and will power is just put into getting through the day? Or someone who's suffered a spinal injury and it takes 2 hours of hard work just to get ready in the morning? Or maybe theres a single mum out there who has the potential to come up with an amazing lucrative business, but she has a disabled child with round the clock care needs and no money to take any financial risks? ...are those people getting adequate reward for the work they are putting in? ...if they worked a little harder would they be successful?

I'm very lucky. I'm not massively successful but doing well for my age. But I'm lucky because I got to go self employed for the following reasons;

I've got no health conditions, while obviously unexpected things can happen it isnt generally a worry that I have to take unpaid sick days.

My partner earns quite well, while I'd not want to rely on him, it's a safety net.

My parents are very generous and supportive, if I fell on hard times they'd support me, again if never rely on this but it's a safety net.

I'm also quite ballsy and think outside the box. Which is luck as it's a trait that runs in the family.

I've also had a lot of inspirations through the years of where I want to me. That is luck that I have people who inspire me around me.

I work very hard and I took risks to get into a now fortunate place. But I'm very lucky.

My own family stood out in a similar way. I'm from working class roots, Indian, but my extended family in India are resolutely middle class. My uncles are teachers and lawyers in India. When my parents came to live in England, their previous qualification as teachers no longer counted. My father became a landlord, but before that worked long hours at Ford. My mother was a sahm and schoolwork, trying your best, was pushed at a young age, we could all read and write from the age of around 4. But it was hard, there was no time for fun. If we did anything, and weren't successful at it, we had to give it up. We were expected to go to university, work weekends and school holidays, either for our father or in outside employment. I remember having a part time job while studying for A levels.
My older brother is a CEO, my sister is now a teacher, my younger brother is a legal adviser for Royal Mail. My own children just expect to go to university, my eldest is hoping for Oxbridge for maths. My various nieces and nephews have either been to university or are planning to.
I encourage my children, but I also encourage them to do what makes them happy, as long as it doesn't involve all day on tech

It's all about talent and hard work and ambition. Then if you don't 'make it' or don't even have enough to live then it's your fault (and possibly the fault of immigrants who come and take our jobs while simultaneously claiming benefits and getting free houses). Someone looking from the outside might say It's very clever.

Probably a good mix of genetics and environment. Genetics probably given them personalities which are resilient, determined and growth mindset and in a family environment which encouraged and rewarded these traits.

I wonder whether the families you are talking about place less importance on material wealth and life style and more on education, good relationships, self knowledge and a love of learning etc All the things that cost little but have greater worth.

Having positive self esteem reinforcement helps. A parent or teacher who says yes you can do that, what do you need to get there.
Ambition and drive and sheer bloody mindedness.

This cartoon always reminds me of the limitations of the 'intrinsic sterling qualities of the self-made man (or woman)' argument.

The private school I went to was not one of the very posh public schools...just a independent school in London. The demographic was wide. What I've noticed now we're all adults is that vast majority of people have followed a similar life path to their own parents. So the daughter of a corporate lawyer is now a corporate lawyer. The daughter of a teacher is now a teacher. The daughter of a single mum on benefits is now a single mum on benefits...we had a lot of assisted places before anyone questions why they were at a private school!

That's a brilliant cartoon outwiththecrowd