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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Just found out that Billie Piper doesn't share social/political views as her ex H

416 replies

EddyF · 04/10/2020 15:48

I just assumed that she shared similar views as that silly man. I am not sure what attracted her to him; she seems pretty level headed and clued up.

I googled her as I saw a movie featuring her and I wanted to watch it but wouldn't have watched it if she was anything like that Lawrence/Laurence, or whatever he's called. I really dislike the man and his face, and unfairly, I had lumbered Bilie with him despite them being separated.

But I can't imagine marrying and having kids with someone who is on a completely different wavelength on such important issues.

I guess there's no aibu but had me reflect if he was always like this/only become like what he is after the divorce.

I would hate to parent with someone with views like him. I would be worried what he's teaching my children all types of intolerance. Plus he's just not very bright.

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NellyJames · 05/10/2020 16:52

Sorry, that sounds say goady not giddy! Blush

Fluffybutter · 05/10/2020 16:59

I never assumed she was the same , I don’t even think he used to be that bad years ago .

longwayoff · 05/10/2020 16:59

It strikes me that Lozza is just the kind of chap who would get an absolute thrill by expressing his minority political perceptions publicly given they are the absolute opposite of Billie Piper's political views. Still struggling to keep control.

vlnr77yac · 05/10/2020 17:54

Funny how so many on here rush to defend LF to justify their own attitudes to racism being called out.

Ever single LF's musings is really his justification and denial about the vast money and power he's inherited but never earned.

Underneath his useful racism wedge that he believes (like Trump) that most white people share - is his deep contempt for ALL people he deems less than him - which btw includes the majority of white racism deniers on here.

That's what he's constantly pissed about so those of you who confuse his contempt for love & think you're somehow at the top of his little pyramid - keep kidding yourself. The world he and his ilk wants back circa 1900 doesn't include any of you black or white, Jew or gentile - accept to clean his big house and wash his toilets.

derxa · 05/10/2020 18:06

@vlnr77yac

Funny how so many on here rush to defend LF to justify their own attitudes to racism being called out.

Ever single LF's musings is really his justification and denial about the vast money and power he's inherited but never earned.

Underneath his useful racism wedge that he believes (like Trump) that most white people share - is his deep contempt for ALL people he deems less than him - which btw includes the majority of white racism deniers on here.

That's what he's constantly pissed about so those of you who confuse his contempt for love & think you're somehow at the top of his little pyramid - keep kidding yourself. The world he and his ilk wants back circa 1900 doesn't include any of you black or white, Jew or gentile - accept to clean his big house and wash his toilets.

He's just an actor spouting off. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
SunbathingDragon · 05/10/2020 18:13

The other day I accidentally used the term "BIPOC" instead of "BAME" on a thread here without thinking (simply because BIPOC is the preferred and most common term in the country I've spent much of my life, and within my industry). It was in the most innocuous context and if I'd used BAME instead, no one would have objected.

No one did object froggy. You’ve misremembered the responses.

froggygoneacourting · 05/10/2020 18:16

Yep and the Fox defenders always go mysteriously silent whenever his abuse of women is brought up. Even the posters trying to drag women's rights/TRA into the debate, in a baffling and Orwellian attempt to pretend that anti-racists=TRA and, in some strange logic rollercoaster, the same as TRA, ergo feminists should support racists.

It's the same category of bad-faith tactic as all the "I'm not a minority but actually X minority group think this." Like trying to speak for a minority you're not part of doesn't immediately make you look like a racist at worst, and a thick twat a best.

Cancelling is always wrong. If you completely close people down all the time, they get more extreme.

Glad you agree that Fox is behaving completely unacceptably, then, given Fox is the only one engaging in "cancelling" (and pretended that other people disagreeing and criticising him - and forced a company to fire someone for critiquing him - is "cancellation" in order to try to deny other people their right to free speech).

When did you leave Hull froggy and do you ever go back to your old school to talk about your successful career? You’d get to be in The Journal and everything! grin

Like I said in my other post, I moved to New York the same year I finished my undergraduate degree. My agent would probably be a bit snobby about the Journal, as the last major media coverage of me was in the Guardian. Sweet of you to take an interest! Smile

froggygoneacourting · 05/10/2020 18:21

Aww, poor SunbathingDragon. Hope your feelings aren't still hurt at me asking why you're unable to use google or read a newspaper, or is it simply laziness that causes you to follow me and other posters around the site demanding "proof" of every thing we post, even things that have been widely reported in the world press?

You should probably stop lying, though, as some posters might have strong enough stomachs to actually go into "Meghan Is Evil thread #374786636491549" and read all the RAWR RAWR virtue-signalling HOW DARE YOU CALL ME RACIST" responses to me using "bipoc" themselves.

kirinm · 05/10/2020 18:29

Poor old Lozza being sued. Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke.

SunbathingDragon · 05/10/2020 18:36

@froggygoneacourting

Aww, poor SunbathingDragon. Hope your feelings aren't still hurt at me asking why you're unable to use google or read a newspaper, or is it simply laziness that causes you to follow me and other posters around the site demanding "proof" of every thing we post, even things that have been widely reported in the world press?

You should probably stop lying, though, as some posters might have strong enough stomachs to actually go into "Meghan Is Evil thread #374786636491549" and read all the RAWR RAWR virtue-signalling HOW DARE YOU CALL ME RACIST" responses to me using "bipoc" themselves.

My feelings have never been hurt. Are you confusing me with someone? I’m also not sure that thread you’ve quoted exists anywhere other than in your imagination.
froggygoneacourting · 05/10/2020 18:46

I’m also not sure that thread you’ve quoted exists anywhere other than in your imagination.

Poor Sunbathing. I'm worried about you, you should really go to a doctor and get that nasty amnesia checked out.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/the_royal_family/3807047-Prince-Andrew-fails-to-cooperate-with-FBI?watched=1&msgid=100578220#100578220

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 05/10/2020 18:59

Nelly, I’ll try answering your questions if I can but I’m not the author of the pyramid meme. Although a lot of its content does hold true in Britain it originated in the US and they experience system racism in different ways to us. So what I write can only be based on interpretation.

‘Over familiarisation’ of PoC, I suspect falls within the remit of micro-aggressions. I recently worked with an Indian woman who thanked me when we first met for not just assuming her country of origin wasn’t British. Another African American colleague is constantly getting comments about her hair and has people wanting to touch it. It’s also lazy assumptions, however well meaning – ‘so where are you from originally? Why don’t you have an accent?’ Etc.

Also, the one bit of this I can never grasp (and I’m willing to accept that’s rooted in my white privilege) is the concept of cultural appropriation.

I agree that’s tough, particularly as it’s a term that seems widely misunderstood and has ironically been misappropriated itself. My understanding is that in its anthropological context it described the coming together of two cultures in some kind of seismic event like colonisation, invasion, genocide etc. When this happens the culture asserting dominance ‘appropriates’ the positive aspects of that culture, whereas the subservient culture is seen to ‘assimilate’ (as in the diaspora, for example). In the humanities theorists like Homi BhaBha talk about it in terms of cultural hybridity, but this is never problematic nor seen as a positive coming together of diverse cultures. He acknowledges the power struggles that exist during this process. He also talks of migrants living in a state of perpetual liminality, falling into the cracks and ‘interstices’ in social structure rather than even existing visibly on the margins. They are then experienced as a 'polluting' presence and experience discrimination on that basis. The Jewish diaspora is a good example of this.

Where this differs from the kind of Twitter nonsense spouted about Adele is that it all relates to major impacts on particular cultures, not individual foibles of fashion like wearing ethnic jewellery etc. Considering the history of cornrows I would never wear these, but a lot of the stuff on social media lambasting the crude definition of cultural appropriation is pretty ignorant. It isn't about personal foibles of dress etc., the definition is as its name suggests: cultural.

I’m genuinely interested because the CA part is the part I really struggle with (unless in the context of representing oppression as I said)

Me too! It’s a very complicated set of issues, and these are hard to understand if you’re in possession of the kind of cultural privilege (not the same as economic privilege), you and I have simply by means of having been born white westerners. LF it seems is incapable of even the simplest recognition of that point.

IrmaFayLear · 05/10/2020 19:02

Why are you repeatedly referring to another thread ? You are being very unreasonable in doing that. Every time I look at MN there’s your name again with Inflammatory and attacking posts.

IrmaFayLear · 05/10/2020 19:03

That was directed at the froggy person, btw.

froggygoneacourting · 05/10/2020 19:09

Cool, do you want to get back to discussing how Fox gave his former makeup artist's sexual harassment complaint letter to a journalist without her knowledge or consent? Or how he got an Asian man fired for tweeting a negative opinion of him?

Or are the "anti-wokesters" just going to ignore all that, to keep banging the tired old drum "criticising someone is cancel culture and cancel culture is an attack on free speech" "wokesters are like the TRA so if you're a feminist you must be anti-woke"? nonsense?

Notanotherwooname · 05/10/2020 19:11

Haven’t read the thread, but I watched I Hate Suzie and thought... “hmm, I wonder if this is just teensy bit autobiographical...” #cobislozza

Fucket · 05/10/2020 19:47

MarieIVanArkleStinks Can I just ask about your reply about the meme. When you mention about people asking, ‘where do you come from?’ I’m from the north, and I live in Kent. I guarantee that whenever I meet anyone new for the first time I always get asked where I am from. It’s a bit annoying but on the whole I just take it that because I sound different it’s just an interesting talking point / conversation starter. and it’s always the same for last 20+ years. But if I was black with a northern accent and someone asked me that question would that be racist?

I’m not trying to be Goady, I just don’t know what’s socially acceptable anymore.

I get teased about my accent too, and mostly I like to make fun of Estuary English because well all southerners sound ridiculous to me.

froggygoneacourting · 05/10/2020 19:49

Simon Blake announced he's suing Fox for defamation.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 05/10/2020 19:56

But if I was black with a northern accent and someone asked me that question would that be racist?

I honestly don't know. I haven't experienced racism so I really don't know how it would be to be fielding this sort of thing all the time. I think common sense/judgement has to play a part and context is important.

NellyJames · 05/10/2020 20:04

@MarieIVanArkleStinks, thank you so much for taking the time to explain all that. I guess I’d always assume someone I’d met in the UK was British until told otherwise. But yes, I’ve heard black women complain about the hair thing before and say they hated strangers touching their baby or child’s hair or even constantly commenting how beautiful it is. That’s something I’ve had to be mindful of and consider more carefully as I would likely be guilty of the comment if a baby had fabulous hair but I know I’d say it to a white mother whose baby had a shock of wonderful hair too probably because all mine were very bald. But I can imagine it gets tiresome if it’s constant.

Re the cultural appropriation thing, it’s interesting to hear the historical context and to know that I’m not the only one who finds it confusing and problematic. I will probably continue to think that a lot of it is white people virtue signaling but be mindful of when it could be hurtful. I remember a thread on here years ago discussing how a passport photo of an (I think) 18mth old was deemed unacceptable because some people of faith such as Muslims may find it offensive and then the British Council of Muslims issued a statement saying nowhere in Islam is a toddler with no top on considered offensive. Thanks again for taking the time.

NellyJames · 05/10/2020 20:18

@Fucket, I think it would depend on the context. I’m Southern and we’re living up North. I get asked lots where I’m from or more usually It’s pointed out to me that I’m not from up here! Grin I do think that in the UK perhaps that’s seen as less offensive certainly if your accent is from a different part of the UK. But of course, context is everything. When Prince Philip famously asked the Tottenham MP, Bernie Grant where he was from in a very slow, patronising way, that was undoubtedly racist especially when on hearing the answer was Tottenham, PP made it worse by saying he’d assumed Mr Grant had made it over from one of the African jobbies (or similar wording).

PhilSwagielka · 05/10/2020 20:44

@numbers84boy

No its probably because I have just had a text from a friend saying Sainsburys/Argos have decided to have separate/safe spaces for their black/ethnic staff. Is this not SEGRIGATION which thank god we have got rid of....or so I thought
Get in the sea. That's not remotely true and you're twisting it. It's all online, it's not like they have a 'blacks only' fountain in Sainsbury's, but I suspect you know this and are being deliberately obtuse.
Stripesnomore · 05/10/2020 20:51

I don’t know whether Fox getting sued is a good thing or not. It will only bring him more attention.

Goosefoot · 05/10/2020 20:56

@MarieIVanArkleStinks

Lots of protestations that LF hasn't said anything racist.

Yes, he has. This is how it's cloaked. He's actually used the phrase 'colour blind'. This is easy when you're born to white privilege. You don't have to see colour; it's not constantly thrust in your face.

Not so easy when you lose out on job opportunities, have to work twice as hard as white colleagues for promotion, or worse, face overt racism when going about your daily life. Check out that hideous 'tube rage' viral footage if there's any doubt PoC have to life this reality.

There's a lot of stuff on the bottom part of the pyramid, the 'socially acceptable' face of privilege, that Fox is spouting ad nauseum. It's very indicative of that 'white masculine privilege' he so strongly objected to being told he had.

This is racism. Whether covert or overt, it's still racism. And what truly bothers me is that some of the more extreme, 'socially unacceptable' varieties are slowly but surely falling into the 'acceptable' part of the pyramid.

This stuff's insidious. Laurence Fox is no poster boy for 'anti-woke'. He's an unpleasant, divisive racist.

This is just a diagram that someone has made up based on their ideology, it's not some sort of scientific diagram.
Goosefoot · 05/10/2020 21:02

I mean for goodness sakes, all kinds of non-white people think the idea of white privilege is wrong, or even worse than wrong, destructive. You are essentially saying anyone who is black who says something like that is a racist or a fool, which is demonstrably untrue.

What is deeply racist is holding intellectual and ideological views of people to different standards because of their race.