If you are really posh...

[quickque]

How do you view people that aren't?

A genuine question. I can't help but feel as if some of my husbands friends / colleagues think that he's married 'down'....

Maybe a generalisation but I mostly get this impression from his female friends.

with people from a similar background, amongst whom I'm judged for my actions.
Or excused for them as you are part of the club.

Not down-doing teachers but would never think most headteachers would consider themselves UMC. UMC families are probably ones that have been 'professional' for generations.

BTW I thought of this thread when I was reading some of the comments about Peregrine Worsthorne's obituary in The Times yesterday. Someone rather archly pointed out that he was a fearful snob but that he was not quite the 'top-drawer' type he made himself out to be (I'm paraphrasing) - I think that comment says it all about the British class system.

UMC families are probably ones that have been 'professional' for generations with a smattering of landed gentry in their backgrounds too. Michael Middleton probably is in this category for all that those OEs were disparaging about Kate's background.

‘How on earth did you end up with someone from
such a different background?’

Is this a serious question @Janegrey333?! Kind of assumes we all happily live in bubbles with people of our own backgrounds. That’s definitely not been my experience either of my own life or many others.

For a start, while ‘posh’ is something I might get labelled as, it’s definitely not something I’ve ever had any interest in being or give a toss about. Don’t we all want to be judged on who we are as people not a completely random act of birth? That’s not to say class codes of behaviour, expectations, speech, language etc weren’t part of my background - they were- probably more overtly at boarding school than at home. We’re all products of our backgrounds but we’re far more than that, we’re individuals. Sticking people into boxes & expecting them to behave and think a certain way based on an accident of birth and upbringing is incredibly short sighted.

How on earth did I end up with DH? I’m 50 now but in my time I dated a whole range of men when I was young and lived in big cities from left wing musicians from Manchester, environmental campaigners, a journalist, a DJ (DD1s father) through to a corporate lawyer & an entrepreneur. They came from all kinds of backgrounds from public school boys through to urban working & middle classes - it’s certainly never been something I’ve taken into consideration in either partners or friends. Do many of us? I met DH at a party in London - our first conversation was an argument about music. He’s very bright, passionate about animal welfare and environmental issues, holds his corner in an argument and makes me laugh. He was also a single parent and understood my commitments & dedication to my daughter. All far far more important to me than anything else.

Have a good friend who is v posh. Brother is a baronet. Private school the lot. Would say v down to earth in other ways. We exchange hand me downs. Not wasteful. Not a snob about where she shops.

Quickque. I would generalise from these idiots to all posh people. They sound stupid and a bit crass from the sound of their jokes. Not all 'posh' people are like that. Its them personally, not all of their ilk. Don't fall into the same trap as them by making daft generalisations! Smile benigngly and roll your eyes out of sight of them

I know a couple of people I'd put into the "posh" category because they are titled, come from old money and generations of other posh people. But they are very down to earth, approachable, kind and really quite normal in their behaviour.

I also know a lot of wannabe posh people who just have money and are awful. They act entitled, look down their nose, are always trying to keep up with the Jones' and it must be exhausting for them.

I am considered posh by the people I grew up with but definitely not by my friends or colleagues. It's all relative to what the person judging you is comparing you to.

The difference is whether you come from old money or new.

IME those from old money - so titled, landed gentry etc. are less aware of their "poshness" than those who actually crave it.

I have some relatives who are highly amusing as, like my mum would say "they really think they're something". They consider themselves posh.

They have a house full of reproduction antique furniture, carpets in the bathroom, a sofa you aren't allowed to sit on, they call their after-school child minder "our nanny", they drink copious amounts of whisky from crystal glasses but only when the clock strikes 9pm, they put their chinese take-away into serving dishes and use linen napkins to catch those pesky noodle drips. The mother has a diamond collection to die for - all bought from QVC but who needs to know. She's also an alcoholic, has been done for drink driving and assaulting a policeman. The husband is a workaholic, mainly as he can't stand the alcoholic wife.

But, to the outside world, everything in the garden is rosy and everyone thinks "oh my word, they're so posh".

@YanTanTethera01

The difference is whether you come from old money or new.

IME those from old money - so titled, landed gentry etc. are less aware of their "poshness" than those who actually crave it.

I have some relatives who are highly amusing as, like my mum would say "they really think they're something". They consider themselves posh.

They have a house full of reproduction antique furniture, carpets in the bathroom, a sofa you aren't allowed to sit on, they call their after-school child minder "our nanny", they drink copious amounts of whisky from crystal glasses but only when the clock strikes 9pm, they put their chinese take-away into serving dishes and use linen napkins to catch those pesky noodle drips. The mother has a diamond collection to die for - all bought from QVC but who needs to know. She's also an alcoholic, has been done for drink driving and assaulting a policeman. The husband is a workaholic, mainly as he can't stand the alcoholic wife.

But, to the outside world, everything in the garden is rosy and everyone thinks "oh my word, they're so posh".

Gosh that sounds really sneering, I would think so badly of people who took notes about how other people serve a takeaway and giggle about where they bought their diamonds. Your poor relatives being judged like that and gossiped about.

Honestly, @YanTanTethera01, I think that kind of sneering says more about you and your mother's attitude to social class than that of the relatives with the carpeted bathroom and QVC diamond collection.

In fact, on re-reading, you're actually joking and making a comic point about that kind of 'they think they're so posh' sneering, aren't you? Aren't you?

Snobbery is snobbery wherever it comes from. I’m in an industry with a LOT of posh people - think so posh they’re working to have something to do rather than for the salary in a lot of cases and there’s a definite vibe of looking down on people from more humble backgrounds.
I actually had one senior colleague stop talking to me, literally, when she found out that I grew up on a council estate.
My regional accent disguises my ‘class’ as it were and I’m constantly being asked which school I’m considering sending my kids to after ‘prep’. I’ve stopped telling people that the kids aren’t in bloody ‘prep’ they’re at a state primary school because of the borderline comical reaction it gets. From confused to downright horrified that someone who could afford to go private for school has chosen not to. I just nod and take the recommends for senior school and change the topic.
There’s also a bewilderment that I haven’t ever skied. They ALL ski. Apparently if I leave it much longer to introduce my kids to ski-ing it’ll be too late...

Of course I'm being comical - why would I sneer at my relatives? They are a big source of comedy for our entire family. They know it too.

george i refer you to my comment earlier about them never having stepped foot in a state school,
Some of the ones i know are very cash poor (altho live in the best postcodes so let's not weep for them) but would do anything to pay for boarding school ed.
Your skiing comment made me lol.

@YanTanTethera01

Of course I'm being comical - why would I sneer at my relatives? They are a big source of comedy for our entire family. They know it too.

I don't know, the alcoholism, drink-driving, and assault on a policeman maybe suggest someone who may not be universally liked, whether her diamonds are inherited or QVC?

I’m American and I say napkin to refer to the thing I wipe my mouth with at the table. My mum used to occasionally call sanitary pads “napkins” but nobody I know under 70 does that. And even my mum also said napkin for the thing at the table but I think the context was pretty clear either way.

I was served tea in a state,y home last year by the lord of the manor
He was lovely and not posh at all.

@YanTanTethera01

The difference is whether you come from old money or new.

IME those from old money - so titled, landed gentry etc. are less aware of their "poshness" than those who actually crave it.

I have some relatives who are highly amusing as, like my mum would say "they really think they're something". They consider themselves posh.

They have a house full of reproduction antique furniture, carpets in the bathroom, a sofa you aren't allowed to sit on, they call their after-school child minder "our nanny", they drink copious amounts of whisky from crystal glasses but only when the clock strikes 9pm, they put their chinese take-away into serving dishes and use linen napkins to catch those pesky noodle drips. The mother has a diamond collection to die for - all bought from QVC but who needs to know. She's also an alcoholic, has been done for drink driving and assaulting a policeman. The husband is a workaholic, mainly as he can't stand the alcoholic wife.

But, to the outside world, everything in the garden is rosy and everyone thinks "oh my word, they're so posh".

And to top it all off their family are cunts.

Poor buggers

My dp has a title but works hard , is not rich and dosn't look down on anyone.

Eleswyre!

I think most of us don't take any of this very seriously. People are just people and some are nice whether "posh" or not and others aren't in all classes.

Remember anyone as old as I am the jibs against Michael Heseltine - self made publishing man and then politician? The diaries of Alan Clarke (who I think was from older money) mention the quotes from him that Heseltine had bought his furniture! (Rather than its having been passed down for hundreds of years from the family castle etc)

@Xenia

I think most of us don't take any of this very seriously. People are just people and some are nice whether "posh" or not and others aren't in all classes.

Remember anyone as old as I am the jibs against Michael Heseltine - self made publishing man and then politician? The diaries of Alan Clarke (who I think was from older money) mention the quotes from him that Heseltine had bought his furniture! (Rather than its having been passed down for hundreds of years from the family castle etc)

I grew up in America and I am convinced that "bought one's furniture"' is a joke that the British pull on outsiders. When they repeat it as a 'thing' to indicate status that's how they know the person isn't really posh. A bit like how the Preppy Handbook is considered a real guide.

I mean, honestly, how hard is it to play the 'improverished posh' role if you were really determined?

This is really a very good read, for those interesting in a group of chancers that did it FOR YEARS:

www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/world/asia/jungle-prince-of-delhi.html

A cynic might say people are full of shit. Don't fall for it.

@OVienna

I mean, honestly, how hard is it to play the 'improverished posh' role if you were really determined?

This is really a very good read, for those interesting in a group of chancers that did it FOR YEARS:

www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/world/asia/jungle-prince-of-delhi.html

A cynic might say people are full of shit. Don't fall for it.

But that's a very different situation, @OVienna and only 'worked' to the extent that it did because of Indian annexation by the British (who annexed that small state that family claimed to be the heirs to in the 1850s) and then the colossal forced migration, administrative and human bloodbath that was Partition meant a lot of people were displaced and records were lost. And because of the sheer size of India no one was likely to bob up and say the equivalent of 'That's not the lost heir to the Dukedom of Toryshire, that's Gary from down the market.'

The people quoted in that article who found the family convincing offered as 'evidence' their good looks and the 'Begum''s haughty behaviour. If someone presented themselves as an aristocrat in the UK now, even if they weren't claiming an inheritance, it wouldn't be a matter of being convinced by their doghair covered tweeds and stories of how they had to sell the Van Dyke, the first questions from anyone else on their purported social level would be who they were related to -- it's not that big a world.

(That family were really interesting, though sad, especially the son who appears to have starved to death and whose body wasn't found till years afterwards -- thanks.)

Hi @GrandAltogether

I was being slightly facetious, to be fair, in my first post.

I understand how the situation with Oudh's was initially possible. But the fact that it remained possible for it to continue for decades without more people willing to investigate it, is something that is really less easy to explain in my opinion. As you rightfully point out, it is arguable that that reluctance in fact led to the son's tragic death.