If you are really posh...

[quickque]

How do you view people that aren't?

A genuine question. I can't help but feel as if some of my husbands friends / colleagues think that he's married 'down'....

Maybe a generalisation but I mostly get this impression from his female friends.

I can’t believe the amount of generalisations I have read scrolling through those 10 pages In particular all the comments around “new money people tend to look down” and “old money aristocratic types tend to be the most down to earth people”. It’s like saying people with blond hair are friendly and people with dark hair are unfriendly.
I live in “posh“ social circles which include poor and wealthy aristocrats, wealthy or not so wealthy upper middle class people, new money (from middle or working class backgrounds), some with wealth in the 10 digit £...
I can assure you that there is no rule. I have met the most down to earth posh aristocrats but equally some of the most snobbish, obnoxious and contemptuous types, no matter where their titles rank. Likewise with the middle class or new money types, some are very down to earth, some very snobbish...
Looking down on others has nothing to do with titles, amount of wealth etc It’s just a character defect such as selfishness, rudeness, jealousy etc

I'm proper posh.

Family titles, land etc etc.

I don't give a shit about people's backgrounds. If I like you, I like you.

My parents (super proper posh) treat every person they meet in the same way.
From the outside you could say I 'married down' (I don't think I did)
My parents were delighted I'd found someone who'd take me...

What is a napkin in american english? Nappy? Or sanitary pad?

@P999

What is a napkin in american english? Nappy? Or sanitary pad?

Omg and you're not even joking 🤣 It's brilliant 😄 Anyhow to OP I think you're afraid of them and you lack confidence. Didn't you realise some lovely people may have had a charming upbringing but they keep real too. And, guess what they just might even really love your company. 🤷

@ChrisPrattsFace

I spend about two thirds of my year with what I assume you would class as ‘posh’ Those with money they’ve earned tend to be kinder and more approachable (no example would be that they always make time for me and my son) whereas those who inherited money are arseholes. (frequently ask me and my son to leave the area because I ruin their day etc)

There's no one like that in my life. Are you in education at a posh school? 🤣

I have a few posh family members. They judge people on their work ethic and morals, not on what kind of job they do. They could have more respect for a hard working cleaning lady than a lazy person with an office job that is beneath their capabilities.

@XingMing

It may be contrarian to say this, but I have never seen social snobbery in the UK that even begins to match what I saw in the USA. I see all sorts in the UK, and am fairly boringly in the middle, and a bit hard to place. But in the USA, notwithstanding the current concern for black lives matter on social media, it seems perfectly acceptable to openly dismiss poor white people as white trash or trailer trash. Are low-earning, poorly educated, opioid-addicted white people in some way inferior to POC in similar circumstances? Did they bring their misfortunes on themselves, rather than being oppressed by brutish overseers? Every strain of humanity, whatever their skin colour, can be either clever and cultured or loutish and criminal depending on their genetic inheritance and upbringing. And both extremes will exclude people not of their midset, whether from the bottom up or the top down.

This is just my observation from brief period living there. Americans are very much in awe of money and are terrifed of being poor, but the difference between here (UK) and there is it's very much not where you're from, but where your going that counts. Someone from a trailerpark that done good ££££, is the American dream. Whereas over here, you get the new money scumbags haven't got any taste etc..You could have come from very humble origins and from the sweat of your brow be earning more than the Royal Family combined, but you will never be truly posh. In the USA you're a success story, UK you're an obnoxious prick with gold taps.

I’d love to help but I’m really common.

I’d agree with the people who say the really posh don’t give a damn and will mix with anyone. But when it comes to the crunch, eg who their close friends are and they marry, it’s pretty well always other really posh people.

yep, exactly that! genuinely posh/old family people are very. very good at being nice and charming and humble, and could talk to anyone, bit like the best of the Royals. But it's not often they become close friends or develop an LTR with middle classes etc.
I mean many more do marry 'down' nowadays but the spouse is expected to fit in and mix with their circles, less usual for the lower-class spouse (even if well-off) to dominate the social life with their habits/friends. William and Kate obvious example - she really took on all the manners and 'easy charm' that's expected and made an effort to fit her new status. There are always breakaways, like Harry but we don't yet know if they will stick together, whereas Will and Kate are solid.

They judge people on their work ethic and morals, not on what kind of job they do are you sure you mean 'posh' rather than successful/educated? Prince Andrew is very posh.. but 'work ethic' ?? many posh people with inherited wealth don't work / not anywhere challenging, they can do charity organising though. Many work in party organising, wine trade.

Oh and PR of course!

@achainisonlyasstrong

I find this view of "proper posh" people as being truly nice, salt of earth, nothing to prove and "noveau riche" as being full of hang-ups etc as pretty bizarre. Why respect "proper posh" people when they've just inherited their wealth? Surely they've got loads to prove and probably have major hang ups as they've just inherited their wealth without actually having skills or having any particular talents like most people. Maybe they are nice as they lead pretty comfortable, unchallenging lives. Surely "noveau riche" people are probably more worthy of respect as they've actually made their money. Also surely "proper posh" people were "noveau riche" generations ago.

I think maybe this is the issue though. Why respect people more for having made more money? If that's the way you think, how do you think about the people who haven't made money?

Meritocracy is deeply judgemental at heart. A few people upthread mentioned how shockingly classist the US could be, and I agree, it looks a little different, but it's a deeply classist society on the libertarian mode - if you haven't made something f yourself, you are worth nothing.

Poor OP. Wants advice from properly posh people, and instead, we all pile in with the usual biased judgemental shite from our non posh perspectives.
FWIW I think wombatchocolate nails it best with her posts.
My neighbours are fab. He’s properly posh, and she is from overseas. It is an absolute hoot watching her trying to get her head round why they have to go to church even though neither of them believe in god, and why he refuses to trade in the land rover. And trying to explain it to her whilst avoiding coming across as a complete loon is very difficult (and very funny).
OP, you will always be a ‘novelty’ to them and they will always be a novelty to you. And so what? They don’t worry about being posh in your company, so why do you worry about not being posh in theirs?

@CatAndHisKit

They judge people on their work ethic and morals, not on what kind of job they do are you sure you mean 'posh' rather than successful/educated? Prince Andrew is very posh.. but 'work ethic' ?? many posh people with inherited wealth don't work / not anywhere challenging, they can do charity organising though. Many work in party organising, wine trade.

My comment was about two family members, as I wrote in my post. I can't comment on all posh people, I have no idea. Can you?

In my experience truly 'posh' people do not judge others, it is the 'want to be posh' people that do ie Hyacinth Bucket may be a fictional character but they do exist in reality

From my (admittedly limited) experience the difference is that truly posh people would never air their judgement in public, unless they are in PLU company. The nouveau crowd are much more likely to be loud about theirs. I had a truly posh friend in school (who claimed they were living in poverty even though they were loaded) who's family were very scathing about single mothers for example. You would never have known this as the mother was the most lovely, genteel woman you could meet. Her daughter perhaps affected by me would tell the real story though.

Lizzie Bennett, is that you?

What seems to confuse people on Mumsnet is that the smart set are considerably more subtle about exclusion and endogamy. It's not all raised eyebrows about where you do or don't ski, or conversations about the difficulty in getting in the right restoration chaps to do a good job on the frescoes, or the difficulty in keeping the wolf from the portico -- it's very possible to be treated with perfect kindness and consideration and still simply be considerately dismissed at a fundamental level.

Yup, this. Due to her children's sport, my sister mixes with some proper posh people. They are perfectly lovely to her, but she will never be one of them or part of their set. She is just, subtly, 'other'.

@Happymum12345 time for the classic "Did you mean to be so rude"!

@TheNavigator

What seems to confuse people on Mumsnet is that the smart set are considerably more subtle about exclusion and endogamy. It's not all raised eyebrows about where you do or don't ski, or conversations about the difficulty in getting in the right restoration chaps to do a good job on the frescoes, or the difficulty in keeping the wolf from the portico -- it's very possible to be treated with perfect kindness and consideration and still simply be considerately dismissed at a fundamental level.

Yup, this. Due to her children's sport, my sister mixes with some proper posh people. They are perfectly lovely to her, but she will never be one of them or part of their set. She is just, subtly, 'other'.

Exactly this. It's one thing "socialising" at a sporting event. It's quite different marrying into those circles from "below" and actually being accepted "inside" them.

OP the people I've seen with the best outcomes in that situation laugh at them - sometimes openly - and be resolute in the fact that she is herself, different and equally great. Don't be on the back foot and don't try and pretend to be like them to fit in: you can only fit in by being different.

@ParrotheadRedux

Not this again. The tired old MN trope that “truly posh” people are all humble, kind and most importantly they ALWAYS drive beaten-up 15-year-old cars. “New money” on the other hand must be flashy snobs who have no social graces and anyway they buy everything on credit to look richer than they are. 🙄

I think psychologically people have a real need to believe in fairness. British people in particular have a very strong ingrained sense of class lodged in their subconscious and this can be hard to shake, even in younger people who believe they are past it. We are trained to respect the upper class so we characterize them as relatable and unassuming. On the other hand there’s no obligation to respect “new money” folks and it’s more comfortable to find ways to look down on them then admit the world is arbitrary and we are jealous of all the cool stuff they have.

Nailed it.

“Whereas over here, you get the new money scumbags haven't got any taste etc..You could have come from very humble origins and from the sweat of your brow be earning more than the Royal Family combined, but you will never be truly posh. In the USA you're a success story, UK you're an obnoxious prick with gold taps.“

Indeed!

Gold taps and little in the way of a decent education, to boot.

@seayork2020

In my experience truly 'posh' people do not judge others, it is the 'want to be posh' people that do ie Hyacinth Bucket may be a fictional character but they do exist in reality

Au contraire. They most certainly do, as others have indicated, but it is so subtle it is barely discernible. It is most certainly there, though!

Yes to what @ParrotheadRedux said. It's also behind some of the kneejerk negativity towards commoners marrying into the British royal family -- and we should remember how negative initial responses to 'Waity Katie' (and her 'Doors to Manual' mother) were, that it wasn't just Meghan Markle, and that it was not just racism in her case.

If you have been acculturated to believe the royals are the acme of the aristocracy (something not everyone would agree with, but 'the RF as arrivistes' is another discussion), who, despite their privilege, 'don't see class', are graceful, humble, unassuming, and charming to the lower orders etc etc -- then a commoner, especially from a nouveau riche background, marrying in upends hierarchies.

Suddenly people who believe in the 'materialistic, grabby and graceless' stereotype of the social climber have to countenance someone like that morphing into the 'timeless unassuming graciousness' of the RF, and it takes the shine off the royal mythos.

Hence the outpourings of spiteful delight when Meghan Markle was perceived as 'getting something wrong' in public after her marriage, by not facing forward in uninterrupted silence for the national anthem, or not wearing tights, or whatever. For a certain type of royalist, it was the equivalent of passing the port the wrong way, or saying 'Pardon?' Her origins were showing.