To think that one cannot be both a Catholic and a Feminist?

[applesauce1]

Inspired by another thread on here, my husband and I had a lively debate about this earlier. I think that a Catholic person cannot also be a Feminist for many reasons, but among these reasons, that an anti-abortion stance is an anti-woman stance.
My husband thinks that a Catholic could be pro-choice and therefore be a feminist, or that a feminist might also disagree with abortion.
He is a cultural Catholic (now atheist), and probably took this stance because he'd like to think that his mum is a feminist. In the end, we agreed to disagree. I think it is a black and white issue and he would like to think there are grey areas.
Do you think there's a way that someone can be a Catholic and also a feminist?

Yes OP, YUBVVVVU. And ignorant.

Just another example of the deeply ingrained anti-Catholic prejudice in this country.

I'll say it again - Catholics are the only minority that it's socially acceptable to be prejudiced against in the UK.

@stickygotstuck why can't the pope be a woman?

Catholics in El Salvador have been murdered for fighting for human rights there, most notably Arch Bishop Ramero, but also lay people and nuns who were raped before being murdered.

My mum is a very active Catholic. She's been a feminist since the 60s... She doesn't consider that being a Catholic means that the church is always right...

[quote Mittens030869]@Graunaile2017

Yes, actually I do remember reading that (I studied doctrine during my theology degree, but that was a long time ago). I can't remember what the three pronouncements were, though; one of them was about the status of the Virgin Mary, as I recall.

So yes, I agree, there should be another Council, with it having been sixty years since the last one.

Thankfully for me, as I'm not a Catholic, so I don't need to spend time agonising about this. But I do think that it's unfair to assume that a practising Catholic can't also be a feminist. A lot of them clearly are, and don't hold with the traditional Catholic teaching on contraception and abortion.

I've found this thread really interesting. [/quote]
I googled as I couldn't remain how many there had actually been.
The Pope made a speech today in favour of refugees and migrants and criticised racism and the current wave of right wing vitriol. Be nice if that was written into dogma.

@Sarahpaula
Due to ingrained mysoginy in the Catholic Church as an instution, I should think. AKA tradition.

Why can't homosexual men in a sexual relationship be priests in the Church of England? Due to the ingrained homophobia of the C of E as an institution.

Are all Anglicans homophobic? Nope. Not even a majority of them.
Are all Catholics mysoginistic? Nope. Not even a majority of them.

However, it's only the latter that generalised social prejudice is acceptable. Why is that?

The OP's question is ignorant.

My gran was. I'm not Catholic. But...
I don't believe that abortion is a good choice. Much better for the world to be set up in a way where if women become pregnant when they weren't trying to are helped and supported to carry the child, and if they want, bring it up. If they don't and the father doesn't, a newborn baby is the dream child for adoption social workers. I'd love to live in a world where the decision to continue a pregnancy didn't close so many doors for a child, where rape never happened, where giving birth to a child with profound disability didn't mean financial penury.
But, seeing as I live here in the real world, abortion is a pragmatic option. I would like to move towards a society where there are other, better options for women.

Catholics see all life as sacred. That doctrine is one I also hold. Seeing a foetus as a person isn't anti feminist.

YABU

It’s a bit like saying you can’t be feminist if you are British because sexism exists in Britain. Total nonsense. Of course you can be a feminist in an imperfect world, all feminists are.

Catholics see all life as sacred.

What about the lives of the babies and small children who were thrown into mass graves in sewers and cesspit? How sacred were their lives?

What about the lives of the little children who had to suffer priests raping them for decades and decades and their suffering being covered up by 'The Catholic Church'? How sacred were their lives?

'All lives as sacred' my absolute arse. Don't insult those babies and children by saying that.

I don't really understand how anyone who is anti-abortion could be a feminist.

I'm a rabid feminist and I am incredibly uncomfortable about abortion. It does seemn like murder to me. A d the more advanced the pregnancy, the more like that it feels to me.

However I feel i cannot/do not have the right to push that onto other women. In fact I think it's disastrous to deny safe abortion.

I just have to try to reconcile myself with the fact that most are done early. But I have found threads on here eg "I'm an abortion nurse ask me anything" where she was describing late abortions, large numbers of repeated abortions, abortion as contraception etc. deeply disturbing.

What about the lives of the babies and small children who were thrown into mass graves in sewers and cesspit? How sacred were their lives?

Yeah and their deaths were apparently also often the result of indifference and cavalier behaviour to their care during and after birth.

But then I suppose the poster's comment was on what the doctrine is supposed to be - as opposed to how it was (not) put into practice.

But then I suppose the poster's comment was on what the doctrine is supposed to be - as opposed to how it was (not) put into practice.

But the thing is, if you are in a church like the Catholic Church, it's all about what the leaders teach and do. The whole thing is about listening to priests, doing the sacraments, going to mass, listening to the doctrine, saying the right prayers, doing what you are told.

It's not really a religion that you interpret things yourself and do your own thing - if you do that then it's not really Catholicism is it, it's just Christianity?

So actually it is important how the doctrine is put into practice by the leaders, otherwise there is no point to even being Catholic in the first place.

i'll believe in feminist catholics when the pope tells us she is a feminist

I do like Pope Francis though.

I was reading that South American Catholics are more progressive in general and more into human rights.

I think ,why would I worship a bunch of child killers and rapists?

Who's asking you to worship a bunch of "child killers and rapists"?

When I went to Catholic mass (long since lapsed), I thought I was being asked to worship a triune Godhead, comprised of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.

Have things changed so dramatically since then?

But the thing is, if you are in a church like the Catholic Church, it's all about what the leaders teach and do. no not really. Priests are not gods. All must answer to God in the end. I’m baffled by people’s ideas about Catholicism.

I suppose we need to look at how the Catholic religion was in each country too.

I lived in Ireland for a long time, and I saw a lot of bad things that the Catholic church did there.

I am in Mexico at the moment, and there are some very beautiful Catholic buildings around. Maybe the catholic church did some good in some countries

@Butchyrestingface Priests are meant to be representatives of Jesus

@Itisbetter

But the thing is, if you are in a church like the Catholic Church, it's all about what the leaders teach and do. no not really. Priests are not gods. All must answer to God in the end. I’m baffled by people’s ideas about Catholicism.

So what is it that sets Catholicism apart from just general 'Christianity' then?

I was raised Catholic by the way, it was a huge part of my childhood, I'm not ignorant about it.

@Butchyrestingface Priests are meant to be representatives of Jesus

But they are not meant to be infallible. And I have never met a priest who asked me to worship HIM.

We are all supposed to be made in God's image and likeness. I wouldn't say all of humanity (or, indeed, very many of us) are in fact Godlike, would you?

@Itisbetter

But the thing is, if you are in a church like the Catholic Church, it's all about what the leaders teach and do. no not really. Priests are not gods. All must answer to God in the end. I’m baffled by people’s ideas about Catholicism.

Oh crap I quoted the wrong post, it was supposed to be this one!

‘So actually it is important how the doctrine is put into practice by the leaders, otherwise there is no point to even being Catholic in the first place.’

Catholics can’t go off and just be some other kind of Christians because they need access to the Sacraments and most other denominations are not sacramental beyond baptism.

So the point for many catholics is to access the sacraments even if you don’t agree on many moral teachings.

So the point for many catholics is to access the sacraments even if you don’t agree on many moral teachings.

But why would you want to access Sacraments of a church that you Don't agree with the teachings of?

I had made an assumption that, to be a Catholic, one would have to subscribe to all of the teachings.

This is what you are trying to do to feminists by saying that they can't be anti-abortion.