Friend of mine just refused to meet for coffee today as I am a teacher working with Covid infected children all day!

[Quarks69]

After 5 Exhausting weeks of working a 12 hour day every day at a secondary school, I woke up this morning looking forward to a coffee and catch up with A local friend. am now totally stunned and feeling pretty betrayed by her response. This is someone I have known since our kids were born and she is healthy and works from home. is this what most people think?

Also, the support of friends and family was invaluable during lockdown when work was so stressful. I would not have got through it without weekly zoom meetings with gin and friends and later walks and picnics. A true friend would understand the need to still have contact if your job is stressful and find a way to get together, even virtually.

Two reasons why she wouldnt want to meet for a face to face coffee chat.

1. as many as one in ten people get long covid which can be anywhere from v.bad-terrible and could effect long term (ie rest of life health). we don't know how serious it is.

2. some people are terrified of picking it up and then passing it on to their 70+ parents - many of whom have zero outside contact apart from occasionally seeing younger family.

Let her make her own decision

@Cam77

Where is the source for the 1 in 10 people getting long term covid?

@Piwlyfbicsly what do you mean 'the hypocrisy of it all'?

Did OP's friend dictate the current policies?

We probably need to take a pragmatic approach and take some risks but avoid others.

Keeping children in school has a clear benefit which many people feel is worthwhile.

I am quite happy to sacrifice meeting friends for coffee if this keeps the R number down and children can stay in school. Does this mean I am a hypocrite?

[quote Hobnobsandbroomstick]@Lweji

By that logic, anyone who has a child who is going to school should also be avoiding any meet ups with their friends for the foreseeable future, no matter how socially distanced?[/quote]
I wrote "By staying at home or socially distancing", so not sure what you mean.

@standupsitdownturnaround
"A clear benefit... is worthwhile..."
I still don't see any mention of what would everyone think if schools were shut due to being unsafe to teachers and non-teaching staff. Schools are clearly unsafe if people are SO concerned about a social distanced meeting with a teacher. So how many of responders on this thread would be all right with the schools being closed? This is where hypocrisy is obvious to me, but you don't have to agree or see it. "We don't create policies" is not an answer. Cars are not being banned/there's no policy against having a car, but some people make climate-friendly choices. Why don't people home educate children to reduce the risk of a virus transmission? Because it's inconvenient to THEM and will cause financial losses, and much more. Still, they are all right for the teachers to risk their health and finances (due to the probability of repeated self-isolation for the whole family).
People who are lucky to WFH think that it's ok for others to serve their needs only because they are not fortunate enough to work in professions where contact is needed.
My friend is vulnerable, and she can WFH for the decent wages, she doesn't suffer any financial losses and finds a Godsend. When I had to stay home with my younger child (asymptomatic) due to contact with a positive case at school, she offered me help with drop-offs and pick-ups for my older child, because there was no way for me to do this without help. I value her offer help so much, she agreed for this knowing that it poses a certain risk, but she valued our relationship and I will respond to her in the same way in the future.

Both DH and I are having to make hard choices about exposure. That includes not meeting with people who are working in high risk environments like schools.

Oh and just to be clear, I support schools switching to remote learning and my own dd is not attending physical school because of the risk to DH and I. For socialization we have created a learning/play pod with families in a similar situation. I’m not being a hypocrite.

[quote CovidAgain]**@quarks69 Actually betrayed is my reaction, because society and parents (she is one) expect teachers (and nhs staff) to put themselves at risk looking after their children, but aren’t prepared to risk anything themselves to support us,

But the way to show support to keyworkers is not to expose ourselves to greater risks by way of a thank you! That’s madness![/quote]
I was just thinking that “betrayed” as you explain it @Quarks69 isn’t very logical IMHO. Her own assessment of risk, which she’s entitled to have whether it’s over the top or not, has no bearing on society’s expectations of key workers or her lack of appreciation of you. Her anxiety, mis-placed or not, is not a betrayal.

I’m seeing a lot of people in my work who have self referred or via their GP for problems with anxiety; excessive worrying, health anxiety, OCD who have never really had problems before or have seen their problems previously in the background now becoming unmanageable because of this virus. Lots of people aren’t able to take a pragmatic self care approach picking out the best practice to stay well and then getting on with life. Some of the ones who have become the most anxious are those that have been able to avoid contact in a way many of us have not. Quite a few people I’ve dealt with take their scientific understanding from the tabloids or get lost in the onslaught of conflicting and illogical advice. So she may have got herself in a real state about it. I think she should have given you much more warning and I completely get how disappointing it is when life is austere enough and then someone cancels the only thing to look forward to in the diary, but I wouldn’t allow it to eat away at you or let it end the friendship.

I’ve got one very good friend of many years who I saw every month for coffee and who knows that my father is dying yet since the virus hit in March hasn’t asked me how I am and how he is and hasn’t responded to my two or three attempts to organise something, except for one coffee meet up where she stood me up. Yes, I was irritated but I know she’s a very anxious person and will be completely focussed on keeping her family safe in a fairly extreme and rather selfish way. But she’s been an amazing friend for 30 years and only a shit one since March. I’m going to give her the benefit out the doubt, see other people and see where we are when this virus is behind us.

Making your workplace COVID-secure during the coronavirus pandemic.

This made me laugh as soon as I saw this on the HSE website.

The only place I would consider to be COVID-secure would be a Biosafety Level 4 laboratory !

I’m a nurse. The only friends that I’ve met up with are nurses or DH colleagues who get regular tests.
No one else wants to met up which is fine.
They are scared and I respect that. It’s sad but I think this will continue for a while yet.

OP YANBU. People are happy for us to do these types of jobs to keep the country going, often from their privileged wfh positions/ none working with spouse support. They have the time to watch the news continuously and get hysterical about the virus. They don't want to meet you as you might be 'infected' , they are too busy with a glass of wine in the hot tub ''staying staff' " "saving the NHS". Obviously not everyone is like this but this is a large proportion IMO.

safe

YABU. Agree with this:

I take the view that everyone has their own perception of the risks of coronavirus. I just let them get on with it.

they are too busy with a glass of wine in the hot tub ''staying safe' " "saving the NHS". Obviously not everyone is like this but this is a large proportion IMO.

This is rubbish IMO.

@Lostalot

OP YANBU. People are happy for us to do these types of jobs to keep the country going, often from their privileged wfh positions/ none working with spouse support. They have the time to watch the news continuously and get hysterical about the virus. They don't want to meet you as you might be 'infected' , they are too busy with a glass of wine in the hot tub ''staying staff' " "saving the NHS". Obviously not everyone is like this but this is a large proportion IMO.

I don't get your logic .I do a type of job that puts me at higher risk but that doesn't mean I want to mix with someone of similar risk. The risks are additive. OP's friend may have the same risk as OP especially if she has school-age children but that doesn't mean she should want to further increase her risk of being infected.

But what about people who have front line type jobs that need the support of friends? They are worked to the bone, then friends won't meet them because they see them as 'infected'. You might have a frontline type job but you are happy with your home life and feel supported ? Its a different thing.

@Lostalot

But what about people who have front line type jobs that need the support of friends? They are worked to the bone, then friends won't meet them because they see them as 'infected'. You might have a frontline type job but you are happy with your home life and feel supported ? Its a different thing.

I meet my front line friends outdoors like anyone else.

But what about people who have front line type jobs that need the support of friends?

facetime, zoom, facebook messenger video chat and coffee, you don't have to be physically there to have a coffee and chat and is really the beauty of modern technology. It not the same but it works as a substitute.

@Lostalot

But what about people who have front line type jobs that need the support of friends? They are worked to the bone, then friends won't meet them because they see them as 'infected'. You might have a frontline type job but you are happy with your home life and feel supported ? Its a different thing.

Thankfully modern technology means you can support friends without having to be physically with them.

@Lostalot

OP YANBU. People are happy for us to do these types of jobs to keep the country going, often from their privileged wfh positions/ none working with spouse support. They have the time to watch the news continuously and get hysterical about the virus. They don't want to meet you as you might be 'infected' , they are too busy with a glass of wine in the hot tub ''staying staff' " "saving the NHS". Obviously not everyone is like this but this is a large proportion IMO.

Yes literally all the people who think we should be reducing our social contacts right now are hysterical woman who spend their days watching the news from a hot tub until their husbands come home. Brilliant.

@Terrace58

“Oh and just to be clear, I support schools switching to remote learning and my own dd is not attending physical school because of the risk to DH and I. For socialization we have created a learning/play pod with families in a similar situation. I’m not being a hypocrite.”

So you and dh have decided not to meet up with high risk people who work in schools and hospitals which is absolutely your decision.

So you’ve created a safe bubble with similar low risk families and are happy for others to take the risks, working in supermarkets, schools, hospitals etc.

Let’s just hope you appreciate us if you or anyone else in your bubble needs any emergency medical assistance.

And let’s hope everyone in your bubble has the same high standards as you for avoiding us unclean, high risk of infection folk!

gulf opening up between people who have to get out there and expose themselves to some risk, and those who are insulated from that working from home and are picking and choosing their risk.

I agree about the gulf but my analysis is different. Anyone at our work who can effectively WFH was sent home early in March. Lots of work was done in preparation / disaster mitigation in February to ensure that it was possible for so many to WFH.

Given that I do not face any risk in order to work, I feel that it would be irresponsible to incur risk in a social setting. I have been meeting people outdoors for walks and BBQs in the garden. And lots of social catchups on teleconf.

I don't really think that it is anxiety that drives this, I feel it is the socially responsible thing to do, to mitigate the spread. I am very grateful to the people who are putting themselves at risk, teachers, delivery drivers and HCP are in the front line. People with school /university children are in there too

The rest of us can only do the best we can to avoid making things worse.

@Lostalot

But what about people who have front line type jobs that need the support of friends? They are worked to the bone, then friends won't meet them because they see them as 'infected'. You might have a frontline type job but you are happy with your home life and feel supported ? Its a different thing.

I meet teacher friends and nurse friends in cafes like anyone else. We don't share drinks or hug each other. I've never even given it a second thought until now. I love my friends and we don't see each other much any more, we were all delighted when we were allowed to go to cafes again, as encouraged to do so by the government.

[quote Piwlyfbicsly]@standupsitdownturnaround
"A clear benefit... is worthwhile..."
I still don't see any mention of what would everyone think if schools were shut due to being unsafe to teachers and non-teaching staff. Schools are clearly unsafe if people are SO concerned about a social distanced meeting with a teacher. So how many of responders on this thread would be all right with the schools being closed? This is where hypocrisy is obvious to me, but you don't have to agree or see it. "We don't create policies" is not an answer. Cars are not being banned/there's no policy against having a car, but some people make climate-friendly choices. Why don't people home educate children to reduce the risk of a virus transmission? Because it's inconvenient to THEM and will cause financial losses, and much more. Still, they are all right for the teachers to risk their health and finances (due to the probability of repeated self-isolation for the whole family).
People who are lucky to WFH think that it's ok for others to serve their needs only because they are not fortunate enough to work in professions where contact is needed.
My friend is vulnerable, and she can WFH for the decent wages, she doesn't suffer any financial losses and finds a Godsend. When I had to stay home with my younger child (asymptomatic) due to contact with a positive case at school, she offered me help with drop-offs and pick-ups for my older child, because there was no way for me to do this without help. I value her offer help so much, she agreed for this knowing that it poses a certain risk, but she valued our relationship and I will respond to her in the same way in the future.[/quote]
I'm sorry I'm so confused!

I don't know what people on the thread would say about schools closing.

I can see the tenuous link. I think you're saying that if someone is not willing to meet a teacher for a coffee then nobody should agree to sending their children to school.

Is that an accurate interpretation?