DD is always put with disruptive children...AIBU to ask her to move?

[peacockfeather11]

Every year this happens and I always try and say nothing because I don't want to be that mother that comes in to school complaining. But this year I am furious! My DD has been put on a table with the most disruptive and she's in tears and I can truly understand. It's too much too ask of her and she's so sensitive she never wants to let the teacher down which I feel is manipulated.

Do I ask the teacher to move her or AIBU?

"When its putting a kid in tears, its sacrificing their mental health
When the disruptive kid is taking the quiet kids attention away from their work, thats a sacrifice to their education."

Can you describe the behaviours that are putting your child in tears and damaging their mental health?

I've already said that bullying and hurting is unacceptable, as is sitting next to a disruptive child for more than a few weeks, a half term at most.

But disruptive behaviour, for a few weeks, really shouldn't impact mental health should it? If it does, you've got bigger fish to fry further down the road I suspect.

"Would you force a child to assist another that constantly kissed and grabbed at her, because I'd think you were an arsed of a teacher (as that teacher was) if that's the case."

No I wouldn't. I don't know any teachers that would.

Pheasantplucker, I hope your boy gets the support he needs and teachers who advocate for him when small-minded parents complain.

Surely the disruptive children should be spread around the class, not all sat on one table with one poor 'sacrificial lamb' sat with them. Wouldn't it make more sense to sit pupils next to one 'difficult' child and then one child they get on with if possible? I imagine it would be much easier for some of these 'good' children expected to act as minders if they could have their best friend opposite or on the other side.

@Pheasantplucker2 So sorry to hear that. Please rest assured that IRL there are plenty of lovely parents and children who totally get that and are happy to support in any way they can.

@Bingbongbinglybong Please don’t make this about gender. There are plenty of sensible boys paired with ‘disruptive’ girls.

And as another teacher I think @rawlikesushi does represent our views well. We’ll always protect children from harm, but we won’t be ignoring the needs of our most vulnerable children to suit a whim. As we’ve said multiple times, there is a range of behaviour being spoken about on this thread. Some is utterly unacceptable and some is just part of living in a world with diverse people.

I find some of the language to describe ‘disruptive’ children on here shocking. There is the world of difference between supporting a child to change their behaviours and condemning them as ‘a naughty child’.

@Minimumstandard

Surely the disruptive children should be spread around the class, not all sat on one table with one poor 'sacrificial lamb' sat with them. Wouldn't it make more sense to sit pupils next to one 'difficult' child and then one child they get on with if possible? I imagine it would be much easier for some of these 'good' children expected to act as minders if they could have their best friend opposite or on the other side.

Well they're normally in table groups at primary, so the nice kid has a range of children to talk to and work with.

Harder this year as all in rows.

Interestingly I’ve been trying to rearrange my seating plan whilst discussing this. My considerations include:

• Ability. Seating children in mixed-ability partnerships where possible (there’s lots of research on how this benefits both partners) but with a table of ‘focus’ children who are more likely to need additional support such as teacher time, manipulatives in maths etc.
• Oracy. Seating children who have difficulty speaking with someone who will be a good talk partner.
• Friendships. There are a few children in my class who find it hard to make friends so I’m trying them with someone new to see if a friendship might blossom.
• SEN. These children (in my class at least) need to sit separately from each other because they can set off negative behaviours by copying. The child with an additional adult must be seated near the door.
• Behaviour. Certain children need to be seated where I can keep an eye on them, but not with each other as they don’t concentrate when near each other. I don’t seat them next to a child they have previously hit (but there are sometimes children with ongoing needs who have literally hit every child at one point or another - we’re not complacent about that, and would have a plan in place). There are also many friendship pairings which I’ve tried in the past and result in chatting and lack of concentration (& yes this includes many of the ‘good’ children). Some children can’t be seated near classroom resources as they’ll fiddle with them.
• Previous seats. A child who has had a really tricky partner will get a bit of a change. Not necessarily to sit with their BF though because (see above).

Once I’ve done all this, if I can seat children with people I think they’ll get on with, I will. But as you can see, it’s not the first thing I would do.

In our case the child was upset and anxious so needed to be out be of the classroom entirely and sitting either with a TA or if she was busy with dd. Observed another incident on a trip where another child had a strop and I saw it was dd who was asked by a teacher to sit with the child and diffuse situation - the teacher didn’t know dd was mine). Tbh I was proud that she is like this but it did go too far in this case as it was first half of year 6 and she could ill afford to miss that much maths.

@user127819

The quiet, patient, uncomplaining children do tend to be put with the disruptive ones unfortunately. It happened to me at school too and it definitely didn't benefit me or "bring me out" or teach me any skills I didn't already have.

I think others are right that somebody has to sit with the disruptive pupils, but they shouldn't be expected to sit with them the whole year, especially year after year. It's been nearly a month and she's in tears so I think it's quite reasonable to ask if she can be moved now. I'm sure a decent teacher will be more than happy to do so. I think many teachers don't realise how upsetting it is for the "quiet" child, because they don't complain at school, they just get on with it.

100% this.

It happens to a lot of quiet, studious boys too. Quite surprised by some of the sexism on this thread.

Vashta, me too, ready for after half term. So much to consider, especially this year. I might pre empt parental grumbling about where their child is sitting by printing your post and sticking it to the door!

I lay my tables out in sixes, and have more tables than kids (for example, 5 tables of 6 for 27 children). I put the disruptive child on the end of the six with an empty seat next to them. They then have the other four children to socialise with, but cannot physically reach them to bother them. I also place single desks In quiet spots around the room, which children are free to use if they want to work in peace; I might also insist on the use of these desks for some children for short periods of time. This is more laborious during Covid as the desks need to be cleaned throughly and left for 72 hours before being used by someone else.

It is difficult at the start of a year to figure out seating plans. We have to get to know the children better to know which combos will work well. I always teach my classes that it is important to be kind, tolerant and accepting of others, but never at the detriment to their own safety or happiness. Encourage your child to speak up, or just have a polite word with the teacher about it.

"Tbh I was proud that she is like this but it did go too far in this case as it was first half of year 6 and she could ill afford to miss that much maths."

She missed maths for half a year to sit outside the classroom with an anxious child? That's outrageous.

I have never seen a child used as a TA, I have only ever heard parents say that, usually after misinterpreting a situation - not saying that's the case for you.

This happened to me repeatedly in primary school and my mum intervened in the end. I was getting pinched really hard by one boy

That sounds like a lovely big classroom @Goatinthegarden Wish I had the space for single desks as well!

"I lay my tables out in sixes, and have more tables than kids (for example, 5 tables of 6 for 27 children). I put the disruptive child on the end of the six with an empty seat next to them. They then have the other four children to socialise with, but cannot physically reach them to bother them."

Yes that's ideal isn't it.

The problems arise if you've only got space for 5 tables of 6, and 30 (or more) children.

I'm jealous that you have additional space for individual desks too.

How are you doing it this year, when pupils have to be in rows?

Quite surprised by some of the sexism on this thread.

Surely the sexism is thinking that girls’ education can be sacrificed to suit the needs of disruptive boys?

why can't the pain in the arse child be made to sit alone.

Wow.

You do realise that if a child is "a pain in the arse", as you so charmingly put it, there are reasons for that?

Children aren't born "good" or "naughty". If a child is persistently disruptive then it's generally because of SEND (which may be undiagnosed) or something they have experienced/are experiencing. In other words, it's not their fault. But sure, Teachers should just ostracise them, I'm sure being socially isolated and feeling unwanted will improve their behaviour immeasurably

I completely agree with pp that if a child is being hurt, or their learning is being impacted it's completely reasonable for Parents to ask for them to be moved. Most of the Teachers on here have said they routinely adjust their seating plans every half term anyway. But honestly, judging by some of the nasty, ignorant comments on this thread, I'd be willing to bet that a few posters are mistaken about the reasons their "good" DC has been placed near a child with behaviour issues. Perhaps the Teacher is trying to teach your DC about empathy as they've worked out its likely to be in short supply at home.

I used to hate this when I was at school. I am still not convinced by the research that says it’s beneficial for high achieving children to be in mixed ability groups. I know it is often cited but I just don’t believe it. It was so far away from my own experience and that of others I know. I get that it benefits the group as a whole but I am very dubious about the benefit to the individual.

My 4yo is already starting to notice behavioural differences. She’s been at school for less than 6 weeks and I’ve already got a good idea which children have been on the storm cloud.

@RomeoLikedCapuletGirls

It’s often the other way round as well. In my current exam classes it is mainly the girls who are
Massively disruptive, they don’t want to be in school, and go to college three times a week but have to do core subjects at school, and they try and ruin it for all the learners.

But... from Reading this thread people don’t seem to want to get that hard working quiet engaged boys are being disrupted by girls.

How are you doing it this year, when pupils have to be in rows?

Students don’t HAVE to be in rows. It’s recommended not required

Surely the sexism is thinking that girls’ education can be sacrificed to suit the needs of disruptive boys?

Nope. The most disruptive children in both my children's classes are girls.

@RomeoLikedCapuletGirls

Quite surprised by some of the sexism on this thread.

Surely the sexism is thinking that girls’ education can be sacrificed to suit the needs of disruptive boys?

It's not always the boys who are disruptive or the girls who are well-behaved. Surely you can see that it's sexist, and crazy actually, to think that?

And nobody expects anyone to 'sacrifice their education.' What hyperbole. But unless you can pay for a selective education, your child may have a child, or several children, with additional needs in his/her class.

The problem can be lack of funding - some kids need one on one input teacher has 30 other boisterous kids to deal with someone needs to sit with the child with mental health issues...

@OverTheRainbow88

How are you doing it this year, when pupils have to be in rows?

Students don’t HAVE to be in rows. It’s recommended not required

Sure, but it's a brave school that goes against government recommendation at the moment. Won't you feel responsible, and be heavily criticised, if you have an outbreak?

I wish I could seat the children as you have done. I've got to sit 33 children in a classroom designed for 30, and have 12 children with behavioural needs.

Yanbu.

The disruptive kids should sit on a table on their own or sent out, why should they be allowed to damage the education of well behaved children. Out of order.