School forcing 8am start for my SEN girl?

[emmapemma91]

So I’m having quite a lot of bother with my little girls school. She’s not settling in very well and becoming very distressed when going into school and can become aggressive.
She’s waiting on assessment for possible Autism. She’s 6 and in year 2.

She’s on a reduced timetable at the minute but the school are forcibly telling me they want her in at 8am to give her time to settle before her class come in at 8.45. I’ve told them each time my sons school taxi comes sometime between 8.15 - 8.25 and I can’t get her there, chase her around while she tries to run away, then carry her into school then be back in time for my sons taxi. Yet every day they say the same thing, she hasn’t settled and needs to be in 8am. If I miss his taxi I can’t get him to school as I don’t drive and it’s quite far away.

Is there any solution? I’m sick of fighting with the school to support my daughter.

@DarkMintChocolate I got what I wanted as well, dd is in independent specialist school but I will still hold the LEA to account for every instance where they failed to meet their statutory duty. LGO rulings are noted by OFSTED and considered at inspections so it is worth pursuing. I've got a couple more to be investigated and expect they will be upheld as well because the LA didn't meet the law and I want my solicitor's fee back that it cost me to force them to meet the law. I see it as a way to signpost to the powers that be that the service offered is unacceptable and that the LA needs to be held to account. Plus the fact I'm nasty when crossed and my motto is don't get mad get even

@hiredandsqueak

I got Y14 funded, without asking.

Oh they will be funding y14 and also the independent specialist college that follows on afterwards. They know it's on the cards I've made no secret about that.

@hiredandsqueak

Referrals are enough evidence of medical needs. Waiting lists for CAMHS around were are seven months pre Covid probably even longer now. LGO ruling says that LA's must make provision when a child has been absent for fifteen days and very few areas will have access to medical services within fifteen days. Dd got a tutor before she saw CAMHS. Our LA also paid me £153 for each week after the first fifteen days they had failed to make the necessary provision. LGO later ordered them to pay a further £300 for the time and trouble of my complaint.

Government guidance recognises that people can't get to consultants within 15 days and therefore says that schools and LAs should be prepared to accept GP evidence. The LGO has never suggested that the right to tuition kicks in automatically after 15 days, because it would be unworkable - the duty doesn't apply when, for instance, the child has simply been on holiday or bunking off, or the parent can't be bothered to send them. Nor does the LA have a duty just to take the parent's word for it that the child is unwell, not least because there have been a number of well-documented abuse cases where parents have evaded detection by keeping their child off school and claiming they were ill. It's generally OK if the school agrees the child can't cope in school, but if there is no evidence other than the parent's any lawyer will tell you that you stand no chance trying to enforce a right to home tuition through the courts.

I've got specialist advice and sorry to inform you but, you are in the wrong, the council only have a duty of care to provide taxis once you have an in place ehc as for the school they can only offer once the council provides. Get your assessments finished, put forward your claim and go from there, slam the school all you want and get incorrect advice from here but at the end of the day it's your responsibility to gain the extra diagnosis and funding for your child. Also you're offered support if its inconvenient for yourself or difficult then explain your situation to your local authority. I am not going to pubicly embarrass you anymore by pointing out how you don't meet criterias ect but possibly liase with support better.

"but at the end of the day it's your responsibility to gain the extra diagnosis and funding for your child."

That is incorrect and is not what the send code of practice says. In many cases parents end up doing all the chasing but it is not the parents responsibility.

If you are a professional I think you need to learn what the law says and not be telling parents incorrect information.

@Ghosts2020

I've got specialist advice and sorry to inform you but, you are in the wrong, the council only have a duty of care to provide taxis once you have an in place ehc as for the school they can only offer once the council provides. Get your assessments finished, put forward your claim and go from there, slam the school all you want and get incorrect advice from here but at the end of the day it's your responsibility to gain the extra diagnosis and funding for your child. Also you're offered support if its inconvenient for yourself or difficult then explain your situation to your local authority. I am not going to pubicly embarrass you anymore by pointing out how you don't meet criterias ect but possibly liase with support better.

I don't think it's the OP who should be embarrassed by the contents of your post...

@Ghosts2020

Give me half a day, I will send this to my mum who is an send coordinator for an academy with multiple years experience in social services and give you a response on how to approach the matter or specific individuals or groups to approach for legal support from CS's x

I believe it's Ghost's mum, who has provided this information.

The information isn't correct

I've got specialist advice and sorry to inform you but, you are in the wrong, the council only have a duty of care to provide taxis once you have an in place ehc as for the school they can only offer once the council provides.

Not true. Try looking at what the law (Schedule 35B Education Act 1996) actually says about who is eligible for home to school transport:

("a) he is of compulsory school age and is any of the following—

a child with special educational needs;
a disabled child;
a child with mobility problems"

Nothing there saying the child has to have an EHC Plan. A child may well have a disability or mobility problems qualifying for transport despite not having the remotest need for an EHC Plan. Also, of course, children with no SEN or disability whatsoever will be eligible if they live more than three miles from the nearest suitable school.

@moonjelly Section 19 states "Each local education authority shall make arrangements for the provision of suitable education at school or otherwise than at school for those children of compulsory school age who, by reason of illness, exclusion from school or otherwise, may not for any period receive suitable education unless such arrangements are made for them." The LGO report "Out of School, Out of Mind" states " So, if a child cannot attend school because of a health problem, after 15 days the council
must intervene and provide suitable education for a minimum of five hours a week".

OP's daughter undoubtedly has extreme anxiety about school, an illness and as such is entitled to the protection of the law and the LA have a legal duty to make provision as per LGO rulings.
Not sure why you are talking about court though, you don't go to court. You start a formal complaint on day sixteen, you contact the LGO and let them know that your child is out of school, you informed the LA, you asked them to make provision and you have made a formal complaint but you still don't have any provision.
LGO contact LEA and remind them of their responsibilities. LEA tell LGO they have no provision available (as they did with my dd) LGO tell them source independent tutors. Next day LEA phone to tell you that tutor from an independent source will be in touch. LGO phone as well to make sure that LEA have put provision in place.
Then because the LEA know that parent has complained to LGO they pay parent the £153pw for each week they failed to provide tutor which is the weekly cost of an in house tutor whilst simultaneously paying £90ph for the tutor they have been told to supply. Parent still pushes complaint to LGO, gets a ruling for the benefit of OFSTED inspection at a later date.

This report in 2017 found that over 50% of LA home school transport include unlawful statements.

contact.org.uk/media/1144250/school_transport_8_september_2017.pdf

Information here:
www.ipsea.org.uk/news/home-to-school-transport-understanding-your-rights

Home to school travel and transport guidance produced by the DfE.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/575323/Home_to_school_travel_and_transport_guidance.pdf

Oh thanks for that @Ellie56 somebody in our parents group is having trouble when in identical circumstances to my dd who got transport provided with no problem. Suspect it's another one of those LA instances where they make it up to suit themselves. We point people to SENTAS for help and advice.

@emmapemma91

I think you're getting some harsh replies here. You can't physically be in two places at once

I remember my child one year. We were walking the 2 miles to school. Because they wanted too and I was so delighted they actually wanted to go to school I didn't even think! 1 Mile in and they just sat on the floor and said no. Not going. I managed to pick them up. Kicking and screaming. Nearly all the way. They had a bike too. I sat with them on the pavement. I tried to reason. We got close to the school and they hung onto a lamppost. I had so many mums try and help. Would you like to walk the dog in. Etc. But no. They were hysterically screaming. I was just about going to give up and was deciding how to home school when I finally got them the last stretch. I collapsed in one teachers arms. My child in someone else's. They took me in. Sat me down. Made me a cup of tea while I hysterically sobbed. I remember there and then. We came up with all these strategies. They knew she had trouble. But they hadn't realised the extent of the trouble. The headmistress was a wonderful lady.

So whilst I can't help. Here's a few things we've done to try

We do a jar. Which they get to decorate. It's their special jar. Where we buy marbles. Gems. They get to put 1 in if they've gone to school and 2 in if they go in nicely. Once it's full. They get a toy. Or magazine. The reason for the one and two gems. Is that I didn't want it to be negative if they went to school. Yet it was hard for them. So they still get told how good they've done. It's just they fill up their jar quicker.

Star charts. But filled with ways they get into school. By car. Walking. If they've had a good day. They get a star for which one. They don't get w gift. But get excited when they put their stars on.

At the end of the month. If they've gone to school nicely. They get to do an activity. One likes rock climbing. So we do that.

Positive affirmations. You've got this. You can do this. Over and over and over

We have races to do everything. We race to see who can get dressed first. We race to see who can brush their hair first. This makes everything fun. In the getting ready for school.

I have now started. You must be dressed before breakfast. No idea. But this made a huge difference in our house!

So hopefully there's some ideas.

I've been there though. Please pm me. If you ever need to talk. It's really hard when you've got a child who dislikes school

@Adelino

Are you anywhere near a secondary school or college? Whilst you press for a more sustainable one as per previous posters suggestions,I am wondering if a 6th former or college student looking to go in to teaching would be able to sit with your son for half an hour each morning on their way to school? I don't expect it would cost too much, maybe £25-30 a week.

30 a week is £120 a month! That could be someone's whole food budget!!!!

Sorry that should have said "LA home school transport policies.

We were refused transport because "there was a suitable school closer to our house" (mainstream school named in EHCP). We'd have loved to know which one!

@drspouse our LA have the same policy if it's a mainstream school named on the EHCP as well. They do tend to back down when challenged though because I think their policy is to try it on and see what they can get away with until challenged. SENTAS are helpful if you need to challenge LA's on school transport.

[quote hiredandsqueak]@drspouse our LA have the same policy if it's a mainstream school named on the EHCP as well. They do tend to back down when challenged though because I think their policy is to try it on and see what they can get away with until challenged. SENTAS are helpful if you need to challenge LA's on school transport.[/quote]
He's not there any more but that was our plan.

"We were refused transport because "there was a suitable school closer to our house" (mainstream school named in EHCP). We'd have loved to know which one!"

If there is only one school named on the plan it is automatically the nearest suitable school. If the LA believe it isn't they have to name the nearest suitable school as well as the 'parental preference' school.

I'm actually half willing the LA to turn DS3's transport down when we get to that point. I will take pleasure in providing proof of the 12 closer mainstream schools that turned him down!

LAs spin parents so much bollocks. They are disgraceful.

Take it from me - don't trust anything the LA tell you unless you have verified it from a reliable independent source, like IPSEA, SOS!SEN or similar.

@Ellie56 you see it on here regularly teachers and SENCos giving advice that is obviously LA policy that pays no regard to the law. They are fed policy from the LA and then repeat it to parents and so children are denied the support they are legally entitled to because parents who are really struggling with their child's needs don't question what they are told and often don't have the time and resources to challenge what they have been told.

At our hearing, the judge was all over the LA EP saying something along the lines about school providing what they could from EHCP. Judge actually stopped him dead and said the content in final wasn't optional and must be delivered.

@hiredandsqueak so true. In my own family parents have been told no respite care available for severely disabled three year old with complex medical needs, no entitlement to the 30 hours free nursery care for same child. The list goes on.