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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Trump vs Biden who would get your vote?

422 replies

tootsietops · 30/09/2020 02:51

I’m up watching the first presidential debate from the UK. Who would get your vote?

YABU Trump
YANBU Biden

OP posts:
CounsellorTroi · 30/09/2020 09:32

My worry is that the electoral college, which has the final say, will vote in favour of Trump anyway even if the people vote for Biden.

ChaToilLeam · 30/09/2020 09:33

Can’t believe that out of that whole vast nation, they couldn’t find a better candidate than Biden.

Still better than Trump. A rotten potato would be better than Trump. An amoeba would be better than Trump. The man is unhinged.

caughtalightsneeze · 30/09/2020 09:33

I may be wrong but I get the impression that an 'ordinary' person could never be elected, leaving aside the wealth that would be required to run a campaign, simply because the USA seems suspicious of people from poor or ordinary backgrounds. If you're the man in the street you're not hardworking enough. Only the elite will do.

annabel85 · 30/09/2020 09:35

@Gumbo

The fact that these are the 2 candidates the poor voters have to choose from highlights everything that is wrong with the American election system. How is it that with such a huge population, the only people who ever are in the running either have to have obscene wealth, or have to have access to absurd amounts of funding to be able to fund the election campaign? It completes rules 'normal' folk out of the running - and frankly, America could really do with some 'normal' down-to-earth sensible leaders!
It's Capitalism gone mad.
longwayoff · 30/09/2020 09:42

Dear God, what a choice. Least worst, as far as we know, so Biden. Poor Americans. Leader of the free world? If that creature is given a second term we will all pay the price for the foreseeable future. Vile, vile, vile.

SnarkWeek · 30/09/2020 09:44

I don’t understand the insanity of those who say that they’re both as bad as each other. Have you not noticed that RBG has just died and Mitch McConnell, the most poisonous, hypocritical, scheming cunt is trying to shoehorn in their pick for Supreme Court judge. If Hillary had won, there would be 3 Supreme Court judges that would have been more liberal leaning. The affordable care act is being ruled on just after the election so now millions of Americans are going to lose their healthcare in the middle of a pandemic. Then on to women’s right to choose and climate change. That’s what you’re really voting for, not which of the old white men are the least creepy. And for us, I’d much rather have a Post Brexit trade agreement with Biden’s America than Trump’s

SpaceOP · 30/09/2020 09:48

And for us, I’d much rather have a Post Brexit trade agreement with Biden’s America than Trump’s

Me too. But I'm pretty sure Boris and the gang would prefer Trump.

Horizons83 · 30/09/2020 09:51

It's the problem with putting too much emphasis on personality as the deciding factor for their candidates (we are going the same way).

Biden is not incompetent, he's a long-serving public official, probably not the best Democrats could come up with but a fundamentally decent person.

Trump is deranged.

But, he's also a celebrity - and that gets him votes. I cannot understand how his polling isn't at 5%, but clearly there are a more than a few people who buy into it.

As for the election results, I pray that it's a landslide for Biden because Trump will try every trick in the book to call the result into question. My only hope is that there are enough decent Republicans left in Congress to say 'enough now'. Not sure there are.

Can you imagine a second term for Trump? Where he cannot be re-elected so he's got NO need to temper his actions for the fear of losing votes? Although knowing him he would spend the term trying to get the 22nd Amendment removed (thank god he definitely won't succeed).

CounsellorTroi · 30/09/2020 09:51

@caughtalightsneeze

I may be wrong but I get the impression that an 'ordinary' person could never be elected, leaving aside the wealth that would be required to run a campaign, simply because the USA seems suspicious of people from poor or ordinary backgrounds. If you're the man in the street you're not hardworking enough. Only the elite will do.
Bill Clinton and Barack Obama had pretty ordinary backgrounds. As did Nixon........
Mimishimi · 30/09/2020 09:53

Biden I think

Mia1415 · 30/09/2020 09:55

Biden, but only because I'd rather vote for anyone rather than Trump.

What a sad state of affairs.

SpaceOP · 30/09/2020 09:57

It's the problem with putting too much emphasis on personality as the deciding factor for their candidates (we are going the same way).

Biden is not incompetent, he's a long-serving public official, probably not the best Democrats could come up with but a fundamentally decent person.

Yes, this.

Shmithecat2 · 30/09/2020 09:58

I had to vote YANBU, as I couldn't in good conscious vote for Trump in any capacity, but as pp have said, HOW ON EARTH are these two men the two best candidates out of a population of more than 330m? My mind is well and truly boggled.

MintyMabel · 30/09/2020 10:00

Of all the things they could have picked to attack Trump they pick his taxes from 2016 when the rate of tax was decided by the Obama and Biden administration

They picked on tax because he hasn't paid it - no matter what the rate decided by Obama. They picked on tax because it is the issue in the news right now. I'd have been shocked if they didn't mention his taxes.

It is depressing people still insist Trump is an alternative to Biden, or that Biden is so terrible they couldn't vote for him.

If people can't actually see the harm Trump is doing, a harm which could well affect the entire world, they haven't been paying attention.

This is not your usual "who do you prefer" election, this is a vote to protect / restore democracy in the US. Trump is dangerous. He has already said he won't necessarily concede to a smooth transition of power. He is disenfranchising democratic voters in their millions with his interference of the post office (not to mention the other underhand ways red states have of ensuring they stay red states.) He has sown the seeds that this election will be "stolen". He has already floated the idea of doing more than 8 years. He has a party prepared to look the other way as he repeatedly violates the constitution and breaks the law. He cannot be removed from office for impeachment. He is using the office to financially benefit his own family, who he is also lining up to take over one day. You don't have to look around the world too hard to find other leaders who do all of those things. (If you are still struggling, bear in mind the word "regime" is used to describe their leadership)

If he replaces RBG's seat, the supreme court will change the course of the US for decades.

Forget policies and lies and sexual assault and all of that noise you would usually take in to consideration in an election. A vote for Trump puts the US further on track for an authoritarian government.

People were warned in 2016 that this man is a danger to the US. He has proven them right so far. It is a favourite of MN to say when someone shows you who they are, believe them. He has shown us who he is and I can only hope anyone here who would vote for him, knowing what he is capable of, doesn't have a vote in the US.

unmarkedbythat · 30/09/2020 10:01

Biden, obviously. It's not even a question. I don't think I could ever understand someone who would vote for Trump after the last 4 years, let alone last night's debate.

BiBabbles · 30/09/2020 10:02

72 million Brits, and Johnson & Starmer are the best you can come up with? As a pp said, this feels really familiar. Not sure why people think those who run for political office are the best of anything. That's never been how politics works.

Biden is a decent tactical move of being mostly US-centre (UK right - Dems are closer to Tories in policy with Republicans far beyond them). Yeah, not the best American, but he might be able to appeal to larger parts of the very disparate groups of the country than some of the other options (as much as I hated Yang and Tulsi's early losses, I understand why they happened). Not sure he's managed it so far, but he's very status quo, very safe, the Dems could use that if they can get past this idea that they can win on just not being Trump. Unless they can talk to the parts of the country they threw away last time with some consideration, they will lose again and they won't get the blame the smaller parties this time (though they'll probably try) as they're barely making a ripple. The US system requires that you consider all the regions of the country, not just where the Dems would like.

As for why the system can't be changed - it would require an amendment to the constitution. I don't think we could get 1/2 the states to agree to anything at the moment, let alone the 3/4ths that would be required. It's one of the issues of a written constitution compared to the UK's unwritten one, changes to it take a lot more effort.

And let's not forget that while many of the Dem candidate argued for the change to the Presidential voting system these last four years, when asked if the primary popular votes for their party should decide who runs, all the remaining candidates but Sanders said something to the tune of "there are procedures to follow", which is pretty much the same fucking thing - the electoral college is the procedure to follow. They only care about changing systems they can't think to work in their favour, and they haven't figured out how to win without ignoring the middle yet.

So, while a small part of me is tempted to leave it blank, I'll most likely vote Biden. Better for those back home to fight against for change than Trump, Jorgensen, or Hawkins.

MintyMabel · 30/09/2020 10:06

HOW ON EARTH are these two men the two best candidates out of a population of more than 330m?

More than 20 candidates, the most diverse line-up ever. Some really strong contenders, especially the likes of Warren and Klobachar. I thought mayor Pete would do a decent job too.

It still came down to two old white men, and that is among a party which claims to be progressive. Sad but unsurprising. Still, Biden is a solid proposition with a decent track record.

mummmy2017 · 30/09/2020 10:09

We know people who say Trump is their first President who did what he said, that he was actually getting things moving in depressed areas.
People were getting jobs and companies were starting up in the North.

MintyMabel · 30/09/2020 10:10

all the remaining candidates but Sanders said something to the tune of "there are procedures to follow", which is pretty much the same fucking thing - the electoral college is the procedure to follow.

I saw this as them not wanting to rock the boat at the early stage. I've listened to a lot of interviews with the candidates and when they were pushed on issues like this one or getting rid of the fillibuster, it was more the case they wouldn't say yes or no, it was more a "we'll see" type response.

MsStillwell · 30/09/2020 10:11

To my mind a system is unfair if a person ( in a truly democratic system, not a questionable election system like pseudo democracy but actually dictatorship ) wins the popular vote but doesn't get elected because of the collegiate vote.

I agree, but what would you have them do?

We have the same problem here in the UK. We had our chance at reform and the government badly let us down on informing the public what proportional representation is (because the idea isn't as straight forward as first past the post).

MintyMabel · 30/09/2020 10:11

People were getting jobs and companies were starting up in the North.

The numbers show this was starting to happen before he took over.

foxyroxyyy · 30/09/2020 10:12

Even if Biden took a shit on stage I'd still pick him over trump

foxyroxyyy · 30/09/2020 10:13

@CitizenFame

If I had to vote, then Trump. If I didn’t have to, then neither of them.
Hmmseriously???
OperationallySound · 30/09/2020 10:13

@annabel85

Neither will condemn the thugs acting in their name. Biden refuses to condemn the lawlessness in Democrat run cities.
That's absolutely untrue. He has condemned violence everywhere, as he should. Just one example:

thehill.com/homenews/campaign/514738-biden-condemns-rioting-in-new-ad

Trump meanwhile stokes the fires of hatred and division on a daily basis.

Horizons83 · 30/09/2020 10:15

As someone else as said more eloquently than me, Biden, as an old white guy, is a safer bet. Stable, don't rock the boat, don't do anything 'out there'. The Democrats went for a woman last time and look how that worked out.

They need to appeal to the undecided voters (not sure how that is possible but never mind), most people made their decisions on this election in about March 2017. An old white guy is boring and predictable, but this election is all about getting rid of the insanity of the last 4 years and starting again. I think it's probably wise to go for an establishment figure.

Personally, I am wary of this identity politics enthusiasm anyway. Not being an old white man does not automatically make you a better candidate.