To think why this is one of the reasons we have an obesity problem.

[Delamalama]

Friend on facebook has put about 2 stone on this past year. She posted a selfie the other day with a statement saying how she's finally learning to love herself, she may not be perfect but it's her body and she loves it!!! She's on the verge of being obese and suffers with chronic backache. Of course she had comments saying 'looking good hun' 'you beauty!' Etc.

I've noticed quite a lot of younger ones doing this 'be fat and proud' crap.

Am I wrong to think that this along with many other things is why we have an obesity problem.

@Fluffalo

So NHS should create a structured plan to support and monitor weight loss

Yes they should, and not just guidance on how to lose weight, most people know. But for support for BED etc to actually address the reasons, like they do for other EDs. Sure not everyone who is overweight falls into that category, but many who have been struggling with their weight for decades despite having guidance thrown at them might just be. And yes you have to buy both, but you don't have to buy cigarettes at all, you have to buy some sort of food.

By this structured plan, I meant every kind of support as per each patient’s needs. It includes mental health diagnosis, if that is the cause of binge eating. I know you need to buy some sort of food but smokers don’t see it that way. I have seen smokers who had to choose between three square meals and they went with cigarettes cos they did not have enough money for both. This is what we must view this as: a disorder that needs treatment and intervention. I think this is how OP and others view these social media posts. They look at these pictures and think, ‘ no that is not a positive image at all! It doesn’t make sense to me’. When other addicts do not post their pictures on social media, putting food addiction or other related disorders in the same sort of category will help people understand how big a problem we have in tackling obesity (any/all cause) and that is the first step towards a solution.

@Eckhart cals are simply how food energy is measured they’re not some mystical abstract entity

Exactly. They're a measure of input, but the calculations using them with regard to diet disregard output, and the variations thereof.

@Fluffalo

Alcoholics still drink liquids. No one is "addicted" to all food. Same like alcoholic isn't addicted to all liquids

Well yes but alcoholic liquids aren't needed to survive. I suppose you assume fat people just eat doughnuts, crisps and fried food all day? Many eat a variety, but just too much of it.

Well you suppose wrong.

My relatives with the thyroid issues had been overweight for decades at time of diagnosis and reporting other textbook symptoms of their condition, when they FINALLY got a diagnosis and treatment the weight pretty much fell off without them changing their dietary habits
NHS falls miles short of a thyroid treatment plan that serves the fucking purpose. It’s nearly criminal the way thyroid issues are met with contempt in NHS. Probably because they want to keep the free prescriptions as low as possible.

@PlonkItDownNOW, keto isn't low carb, it's extreme low carbing. All the research shows that we are better eating low carb as we are out of our child-bearing years. The problem with choosing toast for breakfast is that it isn't nutritionally very good, there's better choices, if you are interested in health and not just body size.

You'd think that slim people don't get health issues the way this and that is deemed as good or bad, not everything is about body size. I went to a health seminar by the NHS for people over 40. Runners and cyclists are filling up the diabetic clinics because they fill up on carbs.

The gout and gallbladder research usually shows that it happens alongside a very low calorie diet. Diets such as Exante/lighter life are given or recommended by the NHS but if you are morbidly obese it needs to be monitored. The problem is that obesity causes gout and gallbladder issues, so it's difficult to know what has caused either.

Carbs are cheap and give us comfort, they're difficult to stop. If I'm walking around my local shopping areas I can get two pasties for £1. I can get a frozen pizza for 89p and a big bag of frozen chips for £1, add in frozen sausages and cheap white bread and you can enjoy eating for less than £4 a day. That's part of the issue.

Sorting out my house over lock down and I came across an old copy of, Fat is a Feminist Issue, it's relevant for me because I realise I'm hiding behind my weight after coming out of a DV relationship.

Showing someone support, which these messages ate doing, isn't the cause of most women's obesity.

So answer me why any overweight or obese person should pay taxes to the NHS then? (And as you're pointing out - that's a lot of society!

How will you decide which diseases are "innocent" or not? As they think that different levels of overweight affect different people differently (ie there is some research indicating that some thinner people may have a VERY low threshold before fat stores in the pancreas - for example - others may have a very high threshold.) how could such a system be fair?

Statistics don't lead to cause and effect.

I think all those going on about saving the NHS should maybe read articles by real obesity experts and doctors who don't take this kind of attitude at all because they know it is incredibly complicated and they know they don't necessarily understand it yet. They do know it's not just about will power however. There is a bit of a vicious circle and a lot more elements involved as MrsFrisbyMouse so movingly outlined.

Well this turned out as usual.

Insults towards people not agreeing with obesity promotions and "celebrating" . Added pinch of low carb vs calories too😁
Only thing which is missing is someone to come out with "Eat like if you were a diabetic".

Without knowing the details, a 2 stone weight gain over a year is huge. I doubt she is really happy about this and posting about it, is just a smokescreen.
I am overweight by 2 stone, so too is my best mate and my sister by 3 stone. None of us would ever dream of posting that we accept our selves, as we don't.
However, currently reading Why We Eat Too Much by Dr Andrew Jenkinson. Fascinating and debunks many myths of the body and investigates the impact of genetic mutation, hormones, ancestors etc. to uncover the truth behind the 'escalating obesity crisis' (his words).

Well, I'd rather she was happy and fat than hated herself and was fat.

Shame and hatred don't always fuel weight loss you know? Sometimes they make it worse.

That was a reply to ToTickleaMockingbird.

I think all those talking as though you can cut swathes of people out of the healthcare system are not thinking about who those people are - and why they should help you when it came to it either. The NHS come from all of us remember, as a society. That's why it treats all of us, as a society.

Oh...and don't even get me started on the number of hcps who were fatter than me trying to patronisingly "advise" on weight loss - if they really knew what they were talking about, if they understood surely they wouldn't be fat themselves?

Also based not only on family experience but also many friends in real life plus numerous posts on sm inc on mn I'm willing to be the lack of testing and diagnosis for thyroid disease is a major factor in this country.

If you read on the approach to thyroid disease in this country there's also issues like certain blood test results in other countries are recognised as indicative of thyroid disease and the patient treated whereas here they're classed as "within a healthy range"

I feel similarly about diabetes I think there's a lot of people with diabetes (both types) who are undx and that's affecting their weight.

Personally as I think I said upthread the nhs needs to move AWAY from a reactive model and TOWARDS a preventive model.

If patients had annual check ups inc regular screening for thyroid disease and diabetes I reckon long term it would save the nhs and the country money in identifying, diagnosing and treating patients BEFORE their conditions cause major health issues.

@Graphista, do you watch Michael Mosley's stuff and read the research behind it? Do you read research on what we need and don't need as we age? Food and sports science shows that how the calories are made up is important, not just the amount, if the focus is health and not just body size.

Not only fat people get type 2 diabetes. Processed carbs are a cheap, quick energy source that a lot of us don't need in the western world. I don't count carbs in chickpeas and lentils.

Second paragraph should read "I'm willing to bet"

Eating like a (type 2) diabetic, ie low to moderate carb with lots of protein and loads of lower carb veg, is not terrible advice for anyone!

Part of the problem is that it’s the combination of fat and carbs that is so addictive for the body. It’s why something like pizza or ice cream is so hard to refuse. Whereas if you just had the cheese/cream or just the white bread, you’d get sick of it more quickly.

I had gestational diabetes and lost weight during pregnancy despite stuffing myself with veg and fish and a lot of cheese and nuts because I couldn’t eat all the easy carbs (and how I wanted them!). Promptly gained weight after the birth because I started eating them again. My body simply doesn’t tolerate carbs well.

I completely agree with the PP who says that research is starting to show that the conditions cause the weight gain, not necessarily the other way around.

However, what we then do with that information is still down to the individual. In my case, I really need to put down the pizza and cut the carbs; not right down, but down.

if they really knew what they were talking about, if they understood surely they wouldn't be fat themselves

So, since you've told us you're overweight, that would mean that you don't know what you're talking about either, Graphista

@SchrodingersImmigrant

The only really bitchy comments were from the "you are fat shaming camp"...

I've noticed that. Nasty lot they are considering they're supposed to be supportive.

Michael Mosley has some interesting ideas but they're not widely agreed upon.

But yes I understand it's not JUST about the number of calories and that certain foods have particular effects on our bodies but a lot of people (thinking particularly of low carbers here but I also lived through the low fat obsession where the same thing happened) very much oversimplify those ideas and misunderstand the science.

Not ALL foods containing refined carbs are "bad" not ALL foods containing animal based fats are "bad" it's far more complex and nuanced than that.

But yes we need experts to understand the science and present it in a way that's easily understood and that's where we really seem to be struggling

Plus of course there's rarely true agreement among the experts even the ones that are in the same "camp" as it were which simply confuses people more.

I work in healthcare. If I ate like a type 2 diabetic actually eats I’d also be type 2 diabetic.

My diabetic dh was shocked the man in the bed next to him had a carrier bag of chocolate bars and packs of biscuits bought in by his wife while he recovered from heart surgery. He said the staff taking his blood glucose always commented how good dhs control was. Then they’d offer him a pudding every night which he’d refuse because he’s been diet controlled for 14 years and would like to stay that way for as long as possible.

The problem with choosing toast for breakfast is that it isn't nutritionally very good, there's better choices, if you are interested in health and not just body size.

I am a nutritionist by trade and you are just plain wrong. Yes, there is naff all goodness really in a piece of warburton's plain white processed bread.

In a slice of actual sourdough (not supermarket sourdough) - even if it's white! - there is plenty of decent nutrition, especially if you have it with good butter, maybe some tomatoes on top with sea salt, bit of fruit on the side.

I'm not saying it would be good to have for breakfast 365 days of the year but that is good for literally any food. Variety is key to good nutrition.

I'd say I have toast like that for breakfast 2-3 times a week, yoghurt and fruit (sometimes with oats), maybe twice a week - sometimes eggs and spinach. Sometimes no breakfast at all. None of these are the "wrong" or "unhealthy" choice.

Delamalama - I think being juxtaposed with Eckhart didn't do your observation much favours there! :)

But seriously - you say there are lots of bitchy comments - maybe quote them and deal with them as individuals rather than talking of them as a "camp". Am I in that camp? And others who don't agree with the OP? I don't think lots of people have made any bitchy comments. Eckhert's comment is extremely personal and rude though.

True for literally any food, that should say.

I don't claim to be an expert I'm simply giving my opinion as is everyone else on the thread.

Based on what I do know but I fully admit there are gaps in my knowledge, and there are gaps in the knowledge generally about weight loss/gain

Otherwise how come I'm overweight when I barely consume enough cals per day for survival? According to nhs calculations.

I'm similarly sceptical of those who are slim and have never BEEN overweight as they've not "walked the walk" either.

People who've been overweight and lost it, and maintained that loss healthily and sensibly MAY have something useful to say/hear but if they come at the subject from a place of judgment as the op does it doesn't exactly make me or anyone else who might benefit want to listen.

Oh my god. I fucking LOVE sourdough with butter and fresh tomatoes and pinch of salt. God I used to live on this most summers😂

I fucking LOVE sourdough with butter and fresh tomatoes and pinch of salt. God I used to live on this most summers

Me too! It's a mediterranean thing I think (my family are Greek)

I'm similarly sceptical of those who are slim and have never BEEN overweight as they've not "walked the walk" either.

I went from obese as a teenager to anorexic as a young woman so I can safely say I've been on both sides of the divide.

I only properly recovered from disordered eating in my late twenties. That's when I retrained as a nutritionist and went into ED recovery work.