@Marisishidinginmyattic odd post, are you aware that it's believed by many that pcos CAUSES the weight not vice versa?
And there's starting to be research showing possibly similar with other conditions - including diabetes.
@Marmitecrackers absolutely no way should we make moral judgment on whether someone deserves healthcare or not - that's a seriously slippery slope.
Because they are preventable illnesses
Absolutely yes. Anything that has a causational link to lifestyle choices.
Aside from genetic conditions (which again, new research is showing even type 2 diabetes may well be) or conditions caused by pollution outside the patients control pretty much any illness and most injuries are the patient's "fault", “preventable illness” so where do we draw the line? Everyone does something that strictly speaking they shouldn't health wise.
Plus as I said there's starting to come through research showing that certain conditions thought to be caused BY being overweight may actually be the cause of BEING overweight
And that's without the major issues we currently have with patients with conditions we already KNOW cause weight gain/difficulty staying slim NOT getting tested or diagnosed.
My relatives with the thyroid issues had been overweight for decades at time of diagnosis and reporting other textbook symptoms of their condition, when they FINALLY got a diagnosis and treatment the weight pretty much fell off without them changing their dietary habits.
If they'd been heard, tested and diagnosed when they first reported their symptoms in all likelihood they'd not have been obese in the first place!
So before the nhs casts any stones...
Plus NO reasonable medic would EVER be as stupid as to say being overweight is definitively the sole cause of heart disease etc it may increase the risk but it's never been proven to definitively cause.
If it were then everyone who is overweight would have diabetes, heart disease etc which simply isn't the case
I've also known someone who's unusual undiagnosed heart condition was the reason behind their weight gain because it had caused major fluid retention issues. Again as soon as diagnosed and treated they basically pissed the weight away!
thinkyou may have put your finger on something. I didn't do foodtech or any significant human biology at school (1980s). Certainly nothing to do with digestion or nutrition. I'm well educated but in a technical field. So maybe despite reading a lot of diet books I am misunderstanding the conversation. As are perhaps many other people. That material has been erratic in the curriculum.
Perhaps you will find it informative to approach your dietary research from a biology perspective?
I’ve long noticed that people who were educated at the time when basic human biology and nutrition weren’t being taught at school have a very skewed understanding of it. In my opinion it was one of the worst, most dangerous (in terms of national health) education decisions ever made! Not just because of the lack of imparting knowledge but because it also meant we had large swathes of the country who weren’t taught to cook healthy, nutritious food from scratch. The people who were children in school at this time often had very busy parents who both worked full time and so also didn’t have loads of time to spend teaching their kids how to cook, and in the case of the poorest families (and poverty and obesity are massively linked) they couldn’t risk the kids cooking something and messing it up so it was inedible, plus they might be working more than one job.
These people very much tend towards using convenience foods, eating out and takeaways.
Then the educational vacuum persisted into their children’s time at school so as far as I’m aware there were at least 2 generations who missed out on this vitally important education.
This was compounded by human biology all but vanishing from schools too. In theory it was supposed to be absorbed into the broader just “biology” lessons but of course that meant it wasn’t allocated the same time as when it was a separate subject.
I hugely object to paying for expensive medicines that wouldn't be needed if the diet and exercise was changed. you can’t possibly know that because even medics and scientists don’t KNOW that!
Re smoking -
Actually we don’t seem to have learned from what we learned about treating smoking addiction either!
Smoking is treated as an addiction, an illness and medics treating smokers for this addiction now don’t do the shaming thing because they learned IT DOESN’T WORK! Instead they look at why they smoke (both why they started and why they continue, including their triggers etc) and address those causes in order to reduce the desire to smoke, there’s also nicotine replacement therapy and other medications that help them quit.
I remember years ago one of Oprah’s episodes, probably early 90’s, she was discussing her battle with weight (and she famously yo-yo’s quite a lot PLUS famously is a survivor of an abusive childhood) and she was working with a psychologist this time around (and iirc this was when she reached a point of mostly being able to healthily control it) and the psychologist was of the opinion that many overweight people had eating disorders which he described as food addiction. The point being with other addictions you can abstain completely as a way of exercising control rather than attempting to exercise moderation control, because with addiction that’s pretty much impossible. But with food, you can’t do that! Because you HAVE to eat to live!
I was very slim at that time and even then thought it totally made sense and was very insightful but sadly nearly 30 years later we’re still failing to properly support and understand people who are overweight and help them remedy it.
but there was zero support for the causes exactly!
Mental health services in particular are still woefully under resourced. I have severe ocd and agoraphobia housebound over 3 years, I’m stuck on an anti depressant that isn’t working on the mh but which is dangerous to withdraw from and you’re not supposed to withdraw without support - which I don’t have. I’ve just started sessions with a new psychologist after waiting over a year.
That’s just one example of the lack of support.
I’ve recently been told by my gp after reviewing my diet (careful diary kept) that I need to eat MORE even though I’m obese because in her MEDICAL opinion my lack of appetite and motivation to cook/eat and therefore not eating much over those last few years when I’ve been incredibly anxious have buggered my metabolism (as have she freely admits, the meds I’m on)
What made a difference for smoking? Changing the environment so that smoke wasn't shoved under the nose of everyone trying to stop also true - which makes a nonsense of those dismissing the factor of our poor food environment where high fat, high sugar, low nutrient foods are heavily pushed.
Smoking isn't really the same though. People have to eat food to survive, written before I wrote re Oprah.
Low carb works because of the calorie deficit, the same as any other diet in the history of mankind exactly what I and others argued on another recent diet thread.
The tripe some low carbers are coming out with is amazing!
@Eckhart cals are simply how food energy is measured they’re not some mystical abstract entity!