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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think why this is one of the reasons we have an obesity problem.

665 replies

Delamalama · 27/09/2020 16:37

Friend on facebook has put about 2 stone on this past year. She posted a selfie the other day with a statement saying how she's finally learning to love herself, she may not be perfect but it's her body and she loves it!!! She's on the verge of being obese and suffers with chronic backache. Of course she had comments saying 'looking good hun' 'you beauty!' Etc.

I've noticed quite a lot of younger ones doing this 'be fat and proud' crap.

Am I wrong to think that this along with many other things is why we have an obesity problem.

OP posts:
DeeCeeCherry · 28/09/2020 10:13

Just comment on her post that you don't think fat & proud is the way to go and that no actually, she doesn't look good.

Or are you a sly hypocrite frenemy that wants to see numerous comments here dissing your 'friend', to make yourself feel good?

People tend to know when they're overweight. Perhaps she's trying to reassure and reaffirm herself for now. Or maybe, God forbid, she IS happy.

Lately seems to be a real surge of bitchy women fat-shaming other women so your post and this thread will be a Harpies Haven for them

SchrodingersImmigrant · 28/09/2020 10:15

The only really bitchy comments were from the "you are fat shaming camp"...

SchrodingersImmigrant · 28/09/2020 10:15

I chose to ignore the paying for medicine because that's ridiculous 👀

unicornpower · 28/09/2020 10:17

A friend of mine who's a PT wrote a post a few months ago about the body positivity movement and it's links to obesity. I believe everyone should be able to love their bodies and not feel ashamed at being overweight but i do think its dangerous when unhealthy weights (obese or underweight) are glorified by others. There's a difference between being overweight and obese.

I lived for years severely underweight and i look back at photos and i feel desperately sorry for my past self as i wasted so much of my life obsessing about my food and my weight. Being too under or overweight does have detrimental effects on us over the years, but i do think obesity should be more recognised as an eating disorder in some cases.

I have a family of obese women and their attitude is 'i like food and wine and have no desire to change' That's fine, but when they are a drain on the NHS through their own lifestyle choices then that's not okay.

Eckhart · 28/09/2020 10:17

@Marmitecrackers

Anything that has a causational link to lifestyle choices

What about if somebody steps in front of a bus because their lifestyle choice is 'Look at phone rather than looking both ways when crossing the road'? Should we not treat their injuries?

Or someone who feels they can't escape a violent relationship and needs treatment from the NHS after a DV incident?

Or a migraine sufferer whose migraines may be caused by stress, but doesn't leave their job, which is sometimes stressful?

Survivor of unsuccessful suicide attempt?

How would you differentiate between those who shouldn't get treatment because it's 'their own fault', and those who should be given NHS treatment?

unmarkedbythat · 28/09/2020 10:20

Anyone who wants to deny smokers use of the NHS can refund them the years and years of tax paid on tobacco products then. Last time I checked, of every £4 charged for tobacco, £3 went in tax. I don't think smokers can be asked to subsidise your health service and denied use of it themselves.

Rocinante39 · 28/09/2020 10:22

Some people are fat because they eat too much. Most of them know that they would look better and be healthier if they lost weight, but that is their battle. That battle is not made easier if society in general, or friends in particular, make them feel bad about themselves.
We have friends to support us, not to scold us.

Iamthewombat · 28/09/2020 10:31

We have to sometimes admit that the food industry funds and thereby strongly influences the scientific studies that are allowed to be published. These are the studies whose results are used by the NHS to produce our 'healthy eating plate'. That's why obesity issues rocketed when the NHS started issuing eating guidelines. Even people who are following the guidelines put on weight. Even those who are 'taking personal responsibility' for what they eat.

The most misleading arguments are usually based around a grain of truth. Those old NHS guidelines did not, on their own, cause people to gain weight.

By now I think that most people have realised that it’s mainly sugar making us fat and that the low fat advice of the eighties and nineties wasn’t great.

However, I don’t recall the NHS telling us to look for fat free cakes or fat free ice cream. The ‘food pyramid’ we were shown at the time was big on complex carbs, vegetables and fruit. It didn’t say, ‘start eating more sweet stuff now!’

That was a choice people made for themselves. Here is a 1995 story from The Independent, reporting on the fat free foods trend. Even then, some people were sceptical about the health value of low fat foods and were wondering what the consequences would be:

www.independent.co.uk/life-style/too-good-to-be-true-1583376.html

Let’s face it: most people like sweet things. I’d eat cake and chocolate all day if I could. People are endlessly inventive when it comes to justifying eating decisions. I deserve a treat, I’ve been ‘good’ all week, it’s low fat, I’m feeling miserable etc etc.

If you knew that you were bigger than you should be, but you didn’t want to give up the cakes, being shown 95% fat free chocolate fudge brownies in 1995 might have made you think, hurrah, the advice is to be low fat and now I can have all this stuff! However, if you applied the common sense you were born with, you’d think, hang on, is it such a great idea to be eating loads of fat free cake and ice cream? What else is in these products?

I think it’s rather unfair to blame the NHS for people’s own eating decisions. It was perfectly possible to eat a lower fat diet without including loads of crap labelled ‘low fat’, but people ate that stuff because they wanted to. It was perfectly possible to follow those old low fat NHS guidelines and not put weight on. You just had to eat less crap at the same time, and not substitute sugar for fat.

As @XingMing remarked earlier, any adult has a choice over what they put into their mouths. It’s too easy to blame the evil food industry.

MadameBlobby · 28/09/2020 10:34

@CarolVordermansBum

My relative used to snigger at fat people and declare 'I'd never let myself get fat, its not hard to stop eating rubbish!' Well, karma came around and she now has a thyroid problem, along with arthritis. She has put on 4 stone and really struggles to loose any weight. She can see now how much of a twat she was back then. Be careful OP, you never know what the future holds.
This. Well I never used to laugh at fat people but I never thought I’d end up one myself. Here I am morbidly obese.

OP I don’t think you are coming from a bad place but you are coming from a place of naivety and not understanding the true complexity of underlying issues around obesity. Plus also the impact it can have on self esteem. If people tell her she looks like shit that’s hardly going to put her in the right space mentally to lose weight. In terms of being proud of it I’m not proud of it either but being ashamed of it just makes me want to eat more and spiral into comfort eating which in turn makes me fatter and more miserable. If she can learn to love herself (and we are all more than our weight) then it might help her make good choices in the long run.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 28/09/2020 10:35

Let me summarise this thread to see how horrible harpies we have here.

Insults towards obese from people saying that maybe we shouldn't do the "fat is beautiful":
.

Insults about obese/overweight from people "standing up" for obese/overweight:
Fat cow
A lot of "shameful" and immoral and hate mentioned
Fatties

Insults towards not obese/overweight from people "standing up" for obese/overweight:
Smug twat
Goady
Jealous
Insecure
Vile
"Go for a run, hun"
Fuck off
Inner ugly

And that's just about third of a thread only. Now who has issues, eh...

D4rwin · 28/09/2020 10:35

Or are you just bitter that she feels good about herself? Not many people actually feel good about themselves and the British hobby is very much to knock anyone down 'a peg or two' for just being confident.

MadameBlobby · 28/09/2020 10:39

@HelloMissus

marmite for what it’s worth, I don’t think thick people should get an education, you’re usually not worth the tax spend.

But I guess neither of us are in charge eh?

👍🏻
Heffersclub · 28/09/2020 10:41

Christ you're a judgy so and so.
No, people saying they love themselves IS NOT one of the causes of obesity.
Rather than come on here shouting about this 'friend' how about you go and campaign against the number of kids being brought up in food poverty in the UK? Calories are cheap, nutrition is expensive.
If you're genuinely worried about the obesity crisis then this would help...

unmarkedbythat · 28/09/2020 10:52

Calories are cheap, nutrition is expensive.

This. A lot of you sound so ignorant and limited, but do continue patting yourselves on your (no doubt toned and slender) backs congratulating yourself for giving overweight people tough love; after all, no one has ever tried encouraging self hate as a motivational tool to promote weight loss before and I'm sure such a novel and original approach is bound to work! Hmm.

SchrodingersImmigrant · 28/09/2020 10:59

Oh. Yeah. Forgot that 60% of uk is destitute

Marmitecrackers · 28/09/2020 10:59

chose to ignore the paying for medicine because that's ridiculous 👀

Why is it. I hugely object to paying for expensive medicines that wouldn't be needed if the diet and exercise was changed.

I love all of the silly examples of "where do you draw the line" ... That goes for any commissioning in the NHS. It is a childish and poorly thought out argument to say but what about people that where talking to their children and fell down a man hole email etc. There are lots of things that are commissioned or not based on judgement. There is a chicken pox vaccination - NHS doesn't cover it. NICE day you should have 3 round of IVF, many Trusts only offer 1, there are drugs for MS, arthritis, etc not covered. There is always a line.

My line would be of the risk of what you are doing outweighs any benefit. Obesity, smoking, drinking can be given up. There is no upside. However, playing football (where you may break a leg) has the upside of preventing weight gain as it's exercise.

Hadtocomment · 28/09/2020 11:00

I have never commented on here before. This thread and the many many others like them depress me very much. In answer to the original question it's quite obvious the friend in question has maybe be struggling with her attitude to either herself or her weight gain or negative messages (that you read and see and hear all the time online for example about weight). She posts up a positive post about accepting and loving herself and people respond with nice messages. No I don't think that is why there is an obesity problem. People respond because they want to tell their friend they care about her. That's ok. It will make her feel she is ok not to obsess or to get herself depressed.

Secondly. On Mumsnet a lot of people are very concerned about regulating other women's "health". Yet only in the form of visible weight. To me this seems like a cover for bullying or status struggles or their own issues maybe. There are lots of things that can make you healthier or unhealthy. But you don't go around chronicling other people's habits and then "approving" them or "disapproving of them". I know people who don't eat vegetables. I'm not going to sit there with a pursed mouth of disapproval when I see they have left their salad. Or examine their facebook posts to only "like" the vegetable pictures. I find that infantilising and ridiculous.

If someone confides in you and wants some help to make changes then of course support and help and kindness is the thing. But showing this "concern" about "health" when it is just really singling people out by weight alone just because that's the easy thing to focus on from the outside - I'd question why people are doing that.

The stigmatising of weight is appaling and I suspect leads more people to feel depressed about themselves and hide away. If you feel you are being judged and disapproved of all the time when in public - you may go out less. If you read all the negative posts on mumsnet about weight you may feel down and then why are you going to go to a swimming pool or be seen exercising thinking that people are judging you constantly - not seeing you as a person, just as a "potential health problem"? Shame and disapproval and disliking yourself does nothing for health. Depression and anxiety caused by nastiness online and other things - Do people here consider the impact of that on other people's health? Or do they only care about one isolated aspect of health? Why would that be? Why do they care so little about adding to the endless messaging in society that helps create depression or feelings of isolation or inadequacy?

Perhaps it is also worth considering there are a lot of people with big deal eating disorders. Sometimes linked to mental health, maybe sometimes to trauma. Eating disorders may leave you very thin or can perhaps lead to chronic overeating or binge eating. Has anyone considered how the impact of their words and their judgement might have on this group of people? Do they care about their health? Why are some of the impacts of obesity more important to those who are very concerned about others health than people's mental health or their ability to get out there and live a happy life?

Take one person. That same person maybe feels they can be constantly unhappy and considering themselves ugly and therefore failing to make relationships, failing to get out there, failing to do healthy stuff like exercising out of embarrassment, feeling depressed, feeling unconfident, failing to live up to their potential. Or the same person can decide - ok no matter where they are with this weight thing they can do all those things. Perhaps the same person won't lose weight. Perhaps they will. Perhaps they will hold it where it is and not put on more. Maybe that same person by being positive about themselves no matter where they are, might - by this attitude - have better relationships, do more exercise, have people around them, not fall into a depression, go for opportunities that are stimulating and interesting that they wouldn't if hiding away, live to their full potential. Maybe that person will have some obesity related issues in the future but still have lived a great life and developed their talents and contributed positively to society. Or maybe that person will never have obesity related issues. But the first person could end up with obesity related issues AND not living a good life AND being unhappy. Or the first person could end up obsessing about weight over all else and struggling with it obsessively for decades and not developing all these other things. You can't really know.

All the obesity experts do not talk in the way people do on Mumsnet. Whatever the causes, they know it's a complicated issue and even more complicated to solve.

In terms of "approval" and "celebration" through use of models. Again, seeing beautiful women who are bigger tells us a couple of things. Firstly it shows that beauty isn't all about weight. Ashley Graham I think most would say is a beautiful woman. She'd be beautiful bigger or smaller really. She's not beautiful because she is bigger. But she is beautiful and bigger than most models. For women who are bigger or struggling with weight it's nice to see someone like that who is obviously beautiful and confident and doesn't let it hold her back in life. The message in that - for me- is a positive one. Don't let things like weight hold you back. Why should your life go on hold whether you are trying to get smaller or whether you feel you've tried and tried and it's just taking your life over to try. Live life! What other message are people wanting - that overweight people are ugly? Why do you want this message? If you believe it then that's fine - models being bigger aren't for you. Is it that you want to believe only very thin people are attractive because being thin is something you have succeeded at or are? Again - most of the messaging is this so you'll be ok. But I don't see any negative side - or at least no more negative than any other model - in seeing there are larger people who are beautiful too. It can show larger people images that may inspire them to feel beautiful too. What's wrong with that? Surely only a bonus on the health and well-being front as it stops people hiding away, makes them feel more attractive, less insecure etc.

But I also find it interesting that some are so concerned about larger women in the media and models and being considered pretty or beautiful. Is this encouraging the obesity epidemic they say. But why are you so focused on women? The obesity epidemic is just as much about men. But the beauty industry has very little to do with men. Are plus sized female models encouraging middle-aged men to gain weight or male obesity? I can't see how. None of this makes sense. Fatness and disapproval is disproportionately lumped onto women, as it always has been. Often by other women. You have to question this.

Attractiveness isn't directly related to weight in that way and lots of people are attractive in different kinds of ways. Also attractiveness is something that maybe is not very important or more important at different stages of life. For example I know someone over 70 who has lost weight to control diabetes. She looked lovely before and after. But what models are on the clothes racks really wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference to her. It could make a big difference to the confidence of some younger women though. (And by the way how dare people say such a person shouldn't be treated on the NHS. How about all the middle-aged overweight people who actually WORK for the NHS? Overweight or obese people pay their taxes like anyone else. And they are as worthy as anyone else.)

Women policing other women's bodies is really so widespread and so depressing. Women supporting other women to embrace their bodies is surely positive. Most obesity experts I've read say the body can really fight big losses and most do not find they can sustain that. There is a lot of science on this and I'm sure a lot of things will be understood more in the future. But if it's not possible for lots of people to maintain the "ideal" BMI, the advice is that even a small or moderate loss can make a big difference to those with health issues. If that's so then we will still have a lot of overweight people who may be struggling to lose a moderate amount for their health and surrounding them with negative images and posts that said only if you are the ultimate BMI are you "allowed" to be attractive or approved of or have likes on a facebook post - is pretty mean and surely counter-intuitive if it's "health" that you're interested in. But is anyone who says it's about health really interested in health? Or is this about something else?

Eckhart · 28/09/2020 11:00

@Iamthewombat

I agree with pretty much everything you said in your excellent post. All I would say is:

It was perfectly possible to follow those old low fat NHS guidelines and not put weight on

The low fat guidelines, and the current 'Eat Well' guidelines make this considerably more difficult, due to the hormonal effects of the balance of foods recommended. I think most women can understand how hormones can affect food cravings. The 'low fat' and 'Eat Well' guidelines promote a hormonal effect that encourages overeating. It is much more difficult to resist than it is to avoid.

Hadtocomment · 28/09/2020 11:05

I would like to add that although I question why the OP is so concerned at the Facebook post of someone she doesn't even know that well, I'm not saying that anything she said here has been unpleasant. But there often are unpleasant comments made on Mumsnet and an awful lot of judgemental comments that seem to lack a lot of understanding (what is the point of these?). But it was the comments about not allowing overweight or obese people to receive NHS care was the final straw that made me comment.

ShebaShimmyShake · 28/09/2020 11:10

@Marmitecrackers

Would you say the same for smokers, drinkers, drug users and sky divers?

Absolutely yes. Anything that has a causational link to lifestyle choices.

So that includes people who drive? Ride buses and trains? Do DIY? Took a tumble on a fell run? Overdid it on the cross trainer? Developed an eating/exercise disorder? Anything that could have been avoided if they spent their lives on the sofa, except that that actually makes you fat and you wouldn't treat that either?
LindaEllen · 28/09/2020 11:15

I mean, I obviously don't think you should go up to people saying they're fat, but when I was a teenager I was hugely overweight, and I mean hugely. In my early 20s I had to lose 12st.

Yet whenever I broached it with my mum she always said I was beautiful the way I was, and then carried on making fatty meals and supplying me with endless snacks.

I don't think that was helpful to me in the slightest. I hate the whole 'big is beautiful' thing on social media. I mean okay, it might be beautiful, but beautiful doesn't mean healthy.

LoeliaPonsonby · 28/09/2020 11:25

I think it’s interesting that it was (and is) perfectly okay to stigmatise smokers, and smoking as a habit, but not obesity which has similar implications for health - and, if you’re a parent, for your children too.

ShebaShimmyShake · 28/09/2020 11:29

@LoeliaPonsonby

I think it’s interesting that it was (and is) perfectly okay to stigmatise smokers, and smoking as a habit, but not obesity which has similar implications for health - and, if you’re a parent, for your children too.
Smoking impacts on others too.
022828MAN · 28/09/2020 11:31

@LoeliaPonsonby

I think it’s interesting that it was (and is) perfectly okay to stigmatise smokers, and smoking as a habit, but not obesity which has similar implications for health - and, if you’re a parent, for your children too.
Agreed! It's a harmful, self harming habit / addiction. We shouldn't celebrate anything similar (obesity, anorexia, smoking, drug use).
SlightlyCheesedOff · 28/09/2020 11:34

You know, if you comment on someone's weight or appearance negatively (and I am not talking about a HCP giving advice etc), then that person has to live with your negativity forever. To coin an old phrase for a different purpose "a moment on the lips for a lifetime in the consciousness".. And what if its not just you commenting, but random strangers who feel ENTITLED to have a say on your appearance day after day after day.. Not to be deliberately ironic, but could you carry the mental weight of that and survive intact? Do you think other people should have the unalienable right to do that to you because they disagree with some aspect of your physicality or existence? Of course you don't. You see it for the cruel absurdity that it is.. Except when it comes to someone else weight.. At which point you detach from the living, breathing, feeling humanity in front of you and see only a size that is offensive to you. So many posters on this thread illustrating that perfectly.

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