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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Another ‘He hasn’t proposed’ thread...

471 replies

MangoMarmalade · 25/09/2020 10:58

Long story short:
We have three kids (older two not his, younger is one year old).
I have made no secret of desire to get married for multiple reasons. Had the ‘one day, let me ask you, it’s tradition’ promises from him.
I have an asset, he has none.
He works full time, I don’t have a career and don’t currently work at all.
When youngest was born I wanted to give my surname as he hadn’t wanted to get married yet. He was adamant that no, baby would have his surname and promised to propose within the year, be married within two.
Hasn’t happened. Last time we spoke about it he made the comment ‘but when our youngest is much older then we can have honeymoon’ etc he has wanted to have another baby, I said not without a ring on my finger and he was all ‘so you’d refuse to have another baby just for a bit of paper!’
Basically reveals he has no intention of fulfilling his promise of asking me any time soon.

AIBU to leave the relationship?

OP posts:
VictoriaBun · 25/09/2020 13:18

He careful what you wish for . If he came home this evening and said let's get married , would you be over the moon with happiness or would the thought that he's only asked because you've railroaded him into it.
Also , he could decide to marry you because he wants an interest in your property.
If he didn't think it was a good idea some time ago , what makes it a good idea now / or in distant future ?

JurassicParkaha · 25/09/2020 13:18

Just read your latest update OP. Please do not have any more children with his man. He's treating you like a full time breeder - only existing to have children for him! He doesn't earn enough to let you work or educate yourself, yet wants another child, which means another few years out of your life where you can do nothing but stay at home and raise that child.

Your needs and your future do not seem to matter at all! Not the need for marriage, not the need to have some sort of job or hobby that lets you develop yourself. Stay with him till you can get back on your feet but i would start making plans for a future away from him. He does not respect or see you as your own person, certainly not as a wife and equal partner, and you do not want to marry this man. There are free online courses you could do to start out - maybe research what you can do while you're home with the baby. The asset is yours so you could sweat it/take out equity/use it as loan collateral for further education - and he doesn't get a say in that.

ISpeakJive · 25/09/2020 13:19

Having said all that I really don’t understand why women who want marriage agree to procreate beforehand. It’s as plain as the nose on your face that this does not bind men to you and frequently leaves women and children in a precarious financial situation.

Τhis!
This guy doesn’t sound like he will commit at all to be honest.
How long have you been together?

CoffeeAndWinePlease · 25/09/2020 13:19

[quote MangoMarmalade]@CoffeeAndWinePlease

Honestly it boils down to - if you don't want me as your wife then you don't value me much. [/quote]
Believe me, I completely get you. I'm a similar age to you. All our friends are starting to get engaged and I won't lie that it hurts.

I'm just trying really hard not to take it personally. I don't think it's ME he doesn't want to marry. I do believe it would be the same if he were with someone else. I do still have wobbles though where I get upset.

SunshineCake · 25/09/2020 13:20

It isn't just a piece of paper and people who think it is are stupid. It is a huge legal protection that comes in very handy if he dies.

Women have sold themselves short for decades and continue to fall for this shit. A man who thinks a baby is easier to walk away from than a marriage is rubbish. Because let's face it, that is why most men won't marry. They want to be able to just fuck off when a shiny new woman comes along without having to give half of what they think is all theirs.

Bravefarts · 25/09/2020 13:23

@BabyItsAWildWorld Or- DON'T QUIT WORK TO HAVE CHILDREN, AND ENSURE YOUR PARTNER DOES 50% INCLUDING PARENTAL LEAVE AND ONLY GET MARRIED IF IT BENEFITS YOU.

In OP's case, marriage is not in her financial interests. Getting back to work, and making her partner do and/or pay 50% childcare is.

Marriage isn't always the answer. Be sure what question you're asking.

If OP had married this man before having a baby, she would have chosen to take his name (something she can do without marriage), and would feel more committed to. But when the split came, she'd be so much worse off than she would be if they split without marriage. Marriage is not always a good thing for women. It's a property contract, and sometimes it suits, and sometimes it doesn't.

Bravefarts · 25/09/2020 13:25

If he's shit with money, is he in debt?

If you marry him, he gets half your house, you get half his debt.

thepeopleversuswork · 25/09/2020 13:25

MangoMarmalade I think the problem is your judgement is being clouded by the "why doesn't he want to marry me?" thing. It's difficult, but you need to get past this. It's a damaging red herring.

What matters here is that he's a bully who wants you at home having his children and doing the housework in a house that's paid for you. He doesn't want the boat rocked: he's not prepared to give you the financial protection of marriage and he doesn't want you to develop any career progression which would support your independence.

It turns out also that you're financially better off without him.

Try to step back from the Disney stuff and the whole business of children's surnames -- which ultimately doesn't have much to do with marriage. What do you and your children need?

You need financial independence, which you have already but would be enhanced by your having a job
You need respect and trust, which he isn't giving you
You need agency and control over your own life, which he isn't giving you

None of these would be served by getting married to him. You would be far better, from almost every angle, leaving him.

OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer · 25/09/2020 13:30

You wouldn't BU to leave, no. He has deliberately strung you along and misled you about something that was important to you. That alone is enough to damage trust.

And you're also sensible to not want to marry him any more. He sounds fucking unmarriageable. Marriage is a legal contract, and it can have a significant impact on a person's position. It involves giving up rights as well as gaining them. There is no way in hell I would enter into a contract with someone like your DP that potentially gave him a claim on my property and might make it harder for me to pass it solely to my kids.

BrunetteAli · 25/09/2020 13:32

Why don't you propose? This isn't the 1800s.

diddl · 25/09/2020 13:32

He has lied-how do you get past that?

When you asked him to marry you & he said no-why did you stay?

BabyItsAWildWorld · 25/09/2020 13:34

@Bravefarts
Or- DON'T QUIT WORK TO HAVE CHILDREN, AND ENSURE YOUR PARTNER DOES 50% INCLUDING PARENTAL LEAVE AND ONLY GET MARRIED IF IT BENEFITS YOU.
Indeed that is another good option for some people Grin.
(and covered under protect yourself in some way.)

But reality is for most women they take some financial hit within a partnership when having children, often become at least partly reliant for a time, and the financial hit can last long term (see the gender pay gap) so the best legal way we have to protect women with children financially is marriage.
and do it before the kids as men seem to lose the imperative after...

UntamedWisteria · 25/09/2020 13:35

So basically you've proposed to him and he's said No Thanks.

That tells you everything you need to know, surely?

If marriage is that important to you give him an ultimatum.

Get married or split up.

Beefcurtains79 · 25/09/2020 13:35

Does he have to agree to you changing the child’s name to double-barrelled? I’d go in really hard for that at least, how dare he refuse you when he has no intention of marrying you.

Starlight39 · 25/09/2020 13:36

Don't marry him! Keep your house with no risk of him taking it (as far as I'm aware, prenups can be challenged, they aren't always water tight). Legally, marriage would give you 50% (let say, might be a bit more as you're SAHM) of his savings and pension but you'd be risking 50% of your house. And you could end up with 50% of his debt if he has any.

I'd also use this time to try and work out what YOU want. At the moment it's all about what he holds over you (marriage). You have 3 kids already, do YOU want another? Do you want to retrain now or when youngest gets some free hours or is at school? Do you want to restart your pet care business? Do you want to go back to work now - he can't tell you you can't do that. He can express a preference but ultimately, it's your life and your choice. I'd recommend getting back to some sort of earning even if it's currently eaten up by childcare.

AcrobaticCardigan · 25/09/2020 13:37

Just to flag - pre nups are not legally binding in the U.K.

squeaver · 25/09/2020 13:37

As someone said earlier, you need to have a really detailed conversation (not an argument) about why, precisely, he doesn't want to get married.
He must be truthful with you - don't let him squirm around.

Then you will have the information you need to make a decisison.

JinglingHellsBells · 25/09/2020 13:38

why oh why do women keep on putting the cart before the horse? if you want marriage, get married first then have a child.

why do women still fall for these 'sometime never' guys?

OP - if marriage was so important, you should have waited to have a child. why the rush? you are still early 30s.

He's got 2 kids already with another woman- he's hardly a keeper in my opinion if he's early 30s too.

I think you need to reassess what marriage means to you.
if it's permanency then marriage can't guarantee that.

MyPersona · 25/09/2020 13:40

[quote MangoMarmalade]@MyPersona he is shit with money.[/quote]
So he’s not a good bet is he. Shit with money and a liar.

Get back to work and start building an independent life for yourself and your children. In the immediate future maybe look at some online courses which will improve your employment prospects. Don’t put yourself down pining for this man who is not worthy of your attention. Don’t even think about agreeing to another child, you’d just end up on your own with 4 children instead of 3.

OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer · 25/09/2020 13:40

@BrunetteAli

Why don't you propose? This isn't the 1800s.
She sort of has.
Original poster
MangoMarmalade · 25/09/2020 13:40

@JinglingHellsBells no the older children are mine with another man, not DP's

OP posts:
JinglingHellsBells · 25/09/2020 13:42

sorry..thought the other kids were his,

OP I think whatever happens now you need to think about counselling. you seem to rush into stuff too fast and 'need' to be with a man and have kids. slow down and get your head sorted, make yourself independent and stop looking at a man to complete your life.

TinyTornado · 25/09/2020 13:44

A slight thinking of outside the box here, is why not just change your name?
Another alternative is now a civil partnership- which personally I would prefer to marriage as doesn’t have any of historical baggage such as ‘let me propose’ and ‘giving away’.
It is an agreement between equals.

MyPersona · 25/09/2020 13:45

He's got 2 kids already with another woman- he's hardly a keeper in my opinion if he's early 30s too.

OMG I’d missed this gem!

FFS, what is wrong with people. Quite apart from anything else with two children each already why have more? And what is it these days with all these men desperate to spread their seed all over the place, bloody kids right left and centre. He’s got 3 and he’s pressing for more? Why?

MyPersona · 25/09/2020 13:46

@MyPersona

He's got 2 kids already with another woman- he's hardly a keeper in my opinion if he's early 30s too.

OMG I’d missed this gem!

FFS, what is wrong with people. Quite apart from anything else with two children each already why have more? And what is it these days with all these men desperate to spread their seed all over the place, bloody kids right left and centre. He’s got 3 and he’s pressing for more? Why?

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