Another ‘He hasn’t proposed’ thread...

[MangoMarmalade]

Long story short:
We have three kids (older two not his, younger is one year old).
I have made no secret of desire to get married for multiple reasons. Had the ‘one day, let me ask you, it’s tradition’ promises from him.
I have an asset, he has none.
He works full time, I don’t have a career and don’t currently work at all.
When youngest was born I wanted to give my surname as he hadn’t wanted to get married yet. He was adamant that no, baby would have his surname and promised to propose within the year, be married within two.
Hasn’t happened. Last time we spoke about it he made the comment ‘but when our youngest is much older then we can have honeymoon’ etc he has wanted to have another baby, I said not without a ring on my finger and he was all ‘so you’d refuse to have another baby just for a bit of paper!’
Basically reveals he has no intention of fulfilling his promise of asking me any time soon.

AIBU to leave the relationship?

have the child his surname as he was very, very angry when I told him I'd be giving my surname as we weren't married. Very unlike him as he's usually so calm! And he absolutely promised we would be married within a year or so.

I couldn't stay with someone who had done this. I think it's disgusting, manipulative and coercive behaviour. There is no excuse for it.

Is he calm 99% of the time because 99% of the time you go with what he wants and don't challenge him?

All of the assets, financial issues, legal and emotional reasons for and against marriage itself, you proposed and he declined - and he has coerced and manipulated you into a situation you didn't want to be in.

That's not forgivable to me. What is the point of being in a relationship with someone who has no respect for you and treats you like a toy?

@SodaPerson maybe marriage is not important to you but it is to many people (not just women).

I totally believe in marriage and thankfully so does DH. When he proposed I actually suggested living together first but he wanted us to get married. We had both lived with someone before and he said he wanted this to be more than that, to be special as he knew he wanted to live the rest of his life with me.

We felt it was showing our commitment in front of our families and making our vows to stay together till death us do part and to be totally faithful to each other.

Living together is fine if that is what both parties want but, obviously, that is not the case here

The other children are OPs, it's her who has multiple children. Her DP wants a second child, which given OP says he's a caring and involved dad isn't unreasonable.

Are you sure he's not trying to keep some debts hidden?

He wants me to be at home with our child until she's in school because he doesn't want someone else looking after them while my minimum wage work would only just cover the cost of childcare and I do agree with this.

Errr... this is not right. At the moment his income covers food, bills, other expenses and is the FAMILY INCOME. As you are a family, right? If you worked, his income+your income would become the FAMILY INCOME and this would cover everything, including the childcare expenses. It's not like he covers everything else and you pay for your childcare. And it also means the fact that you have a job, the possibility to progress, independence.

I really wouldn't have a second child with him, OP. Married to him or not.

I think getting married would be a bad thing for you.

I don’t think pre nups are binding in the U.K. so wouldn’t be a 100% guarantee.

I think it would be better to say “let’s agree for certain we won’t get married” rather than hanging on. Or if you want to put your faith in a pre nup get legal advice, and then say “we decide now, we either book a marriage ceremony at the town hall (or similar) or decide it’s something we won’t be doing”. No more hanging about.

If you do stay together (married or not) make it on condition that:

a. Baby’s name double barrels
b. You will be going back to work
c. Baby will go into daycare with both of you paying towards it
d. Agree a split of bills that is fair, proportionate to your incomes and leaves you with equal spending money.

At the moment there are far too many “he wants” governing your life.

@TinyTornado

A slight thinking of outside the box here, is why not just change your name? Another alternative is now a civil partnership- which personally I would prefer to marriage as doesn’t have any of historical baggage such as ‘let me propose’ and ‘giving away’. It is an agreement between equals.

There's no more reason to do either of those with an unsuitable partner than there is to marry them. CP has exactly the same financial implications as marriage in respect of property, and so OP should approach it with great caution!

@MangoMarmalade

He wants me to be at home with our child until she's in school because he doesn't want someone else looking after them while my minimum wage work would only just cover the cost of childcare and I do agree with this.

I wouldn't be entitled to any help with college funding because of his earnings but were in no position to get any loans.

I am feeling really deflated lately. Our child has just turned 1 but is still nursing to sleep for day time naps and nurses in the night. Bed sharing. Have tried sleep training but can't stand her screaming and crying. DP sleeps on sofa. No sex life. No 'life' really.

If you aren't married why would his income be counted against you for college funding? For all intents and purposes wouldn't he legally be no more than a 'roommate'? He's certainly not legally required to support you or provide help for an education. (I'm in the US)

In my old age I've become very cynical when it comes to marriage. Odd, because I'm in a 30+ year happy one. But the more I see of the general state of 'marriage' these days the more I think it's generally shit, especially for women. If I were to (God forbid) become single I would NEVER marry again. Not if you were to offer me Aidan Turner on a silver platter and bribe me with Bill Gates' bank balance.

Personally, I wouldn't want to marry him (or anyone) if I owned a house outright, especially if I had children that my 'partner' wasn't legally responsible for. You could end up with no house and no support for yourself and 2 out of your 3 children. And that lack of legal financial responsibility is a very large concern. Sure, you'd have your house but how would you pay for running it? (Again, US and here there is no social safety net, especially if you own property)

If I were you I'd do everything I could to gain some type of marketable job skill. And if he won't support you in this, then I'd be asking myself why he wants to keep me in such a vulnerable position.

Op, you need to do some training and get back to work ASAP.
Forget about marriage to this man and focus on you and the dcs.

I would leave him now. Walk away. He has lied to you long term to get what he wanted. Obviously marrying you is not a priority for him. If you leave he may see the error of his ways and make determined efforts to put things right but I bet he doesn't. Sorry op- he sounds like a gas lighting tosser.

Yes he's in debt in HMRC fines because he keeps refusing to see an accountant to help him sort out years worth of no tax returns. As yet to the tune of the unknown because he is not opening their letters.

He pays a standard rate from his pay through the building company he works for (I don't really know how it all works)

My mum has offered to pay the cost of accountant to sort this...but he still won't make an appointment. More empty promises.

@AcrossthePond55

In the UK there's a double standard that living together counts for getting grants, loans, benefits etc from the state, but when it comes to splitting, you have no claims over the other's property.

Yanbu, he’ll always have an excuse to keep you on the back burner while he waits for the 25yo supermodel to come along and decide he’s the one for her 🙄.

Sorry to massively drip feed, but the tax thing is seriously making me consider leaving him anyway.

@MangoMarmalade

Sorry, just to add, we're in our early 30s. I wouldn't be leaving the relationship to find someone else. I'd be pretty much giving up on men at this point. I'm just wondering is it better to be in a relationship with someone whose broken their promise, in the hope that one day he will ask....or is it better to have boundaries and be single mum to 3. Plus points, I love him and he loves me, he's the calmest person I've ever met, hes hilarious, he's great with the kids and he's hands on with the baby.

Based on this... I think you should just give up on marriage. I can't imagine breaking up my home and a happy relationship like this. But... I'm eternally single so I really don't know what I'm talking about

[quote MangoMarmalade]@SallySeven So really I need to realise in my position I shouldn't get married ever? I haven't really thought about it that way. Maybe I really should!! [/quote]
If you marry him you will be sharing your assets.

Do you really think that's a good idea? Especially as you don't work. You could be a lot worse off.

@MangoMarmalade

Yes he's in debt in HMRC fines because he keeps refusing to see an accountant to help him sort out years worth of no tax returns. As yet to the tune of the unknown because he is not opening their letters.

He pays a standard rate from his pay through the building company he works for (I don't really know how it all works)

My mum has offered to pay the cost of accountant to sort this...but he still won't make an appointment. More empty promises.

Run!!!

@MangoMarmalade

Yes he's in debt in HMRC fines because he keeps refusing to see an accountant to help him sort out years worth of no tax returns. As yet to the tune of the unknown because he is not opening their letters.

He pays a standard rate from his pay through the building company he works for (I don't really know how it all works)

My mum has offered to pay the cost of accountant to sort this...but he still won't make an appointment. More empty promises.

Well damn. I take it back. I couldn't be with someone who was a financial hot mess.

How galling would it be to lose half your house to this dickhead if he deigns to marry you?! You are very fortunate to have such a valuable house without having to pay for it, though of course I am sorry for the loss of whoever left it to you, so giving it away to someone who has lied to you would be bloody stupid! That is your children's inheritance and when you have children you should make decisions based on what is best for them a lot of the time.

@MangoMarmalade

I agree with you. If he wanted to be with you for the rest of life, he would marry you. It's a common story for a man to act as your partner is doing, giving lots of reasons for not getting married right now and then boom! he meets someone else and is married in quick time, because he is in love.

So, I do think you have to realise that he doesn't want to marry you, even though you have a house and his child. If he did, he would have done so by now. If he marries you now, you'll never know just how much of it was down to the pressure you put on him.

BUT. You do have that house and you have three children, so that's a plus. Sell the house, buy somewhere cheaper and put the rest of it aside to live on while you get yourself a job or career. You will be an independent woman.

He doesn't love you enough but he's just one man. Wave goodbye to him and never beg a man to marry you you...don't give him that power over you.

Yes he's in debt in HMRC fines because he keeps refusing to see an accountant to help him sort out years worth of no tax returns. As yet to the tune of the unknown because he is not opening their letters.

YIKES

DO NOT MARRY THIS MAN.

(Or civil partnership, that's the same legal contract, just different historical baggage!)

To be fair to him he's always stated he would never take half the house, has no interest in doing so, and he knows getting married would mean he'd prob be entitled to it and he doesn't want to get married so I believe his current non-intentions towards the house.

It was left to me by my dad was absolutely devastated when he died.

You would be far off without him.

You have children, a house in your own name. You have no need for the financial protection of marriage.
He's shit with money and has his head in the sand.
He's a bully.
He makes ridiculous demands about how you name the children when he isn't prepared to marry you.
He is full of bluster about "traditional values" when he isn't prepared to marry you.
He treats you as a source of free childcare and domestic labour (and, presumably, sex)
He's lied to you about getting married and made it clear he isn't to be trusted.

The more I hear about him the harder I find it to understand why you want to marry him it all. Do yourself and your children a favour.

OP - based on all of your updates, DO NOT marry him. I am all for marriage (always believe it is best for women especially SAHM) but, in your case, you have an asset, he has no claim on it. He has huge debt, you do not - please do NOT marry him.

Add to that all of the other reasons why not, and also DO NOT HAVE ANOTHER CHILD with him. (for there reasons above and your posts on his temper and his lack of respect).

I am definitely not having another child. I'd forgotten how trapped it makes you. Desperate to escape a lot of the time as it is.