Boyfriend thinks I am not ambitious.

[ambioussssssssss]

I am 25. I have been to university studying a degree related to animals. I hope to go on to do a postgraduate degree in something more technical in around two years time. I just want to make sure I know what I want to do.
I find there are not really much jobs about working with animals in my area and if there are, they get tons of applications.

Before university, I had a part-time job as a receptionist.
After struggling to find a job related to animals, I have decided to go back to receptionist work but I have only been able to find work through an agency (I don't know if this is because of coronavirus or if receptionist jobs are usually hard to get?).

The past 2 weeks, I have had quite a bit of work, but today I didn't get a call.
I phoned boyfriend, who has a contracted job which is relatively well-paid and he didn't go to uni, he did an apprenticeship once he left school and has made his way up in his company. I told him that I am feeling anxious about the work situation and I am not loving zero-hour contract/temporary work and I hate the inconsistency of it.
He asked if I was still applying for jobs and I said yes (as I am). I have an interview in 2 weeks, which I feel nervous but excited about. Even if I don't get it, it's nice to get an interview.

However, I was a bit struck back by what he said. He told me he understood how rubbish agency work is and said that I must lack ambition as if I really tried hard enough, I would have a full-time job by now. I debated him with this and said it's easy for him to say in the job he has about how 'easy' it is to find a job if you have the drive.

His reasoning for saying this was that he hasn't been out of work since leaving school because he has the drive and motivation.
I don't understand why he doesn't see the ambition in me?
I left school, I worked part-time. I went to uni. I got a first-class degree. Yes if I could go back in time I would probably choose a different degree in terms of career prospects but being young, I chose what I would enjoy. But I can't think like that as it is done.

I am not on agency work and hoping to do further studies within a couple of years. But I don't want to rush into it and make a mistake.

I feel he's embarrassed by my job. When people ask what I am doing now I have left uni and I say I am doing agency work as I am finding the job market quite tough, I feel he cringes.

I'm feeling really down now. Like my life is going nowhere and that it's my fault.

*tonnes of people

No one should expect another adult to subsidize them just because they can't decide what to do with themselves...

Seriously, imagine if a guy came here and suggested that he wants to go part time/doesn't know what he wants and wants his girlfriend to subsidize this, eh...

@ShroedingersImmigrant @Bluntness100

You've definitely got a point - I was ignoring the relationship / interpersonal dynamics and focusing on the practicalities of obtaining a mortgage, if the couple wanted to do so. A lot of people are not aware of things like deed of trust or the possibilities of splitting a property so that everyone is protected, which was why I posted.

FWIW I fully agree with you both about not wanting to carry another adult in life and I was assuming in my post that she would be paying a fair split of bills and utilities if they went for this option. In the boyfriend's shoes, I would probably not be too keen on this either. The point I was making was just to point out that it can be done, if both parties wish to do it.

It sounds like you’re not compatible with your boyfriend. It’s important to me that myself and my OH are ambitious and strive to be successful and earn good money.

I know that’s not important to everyone and that’s fine. However I couldn’t be in a relationship with someone who has no ambition or drive in their career. It just wouldn’t work. I’d find it depressing.

Shroedinger it's not 'subsidizing' if it's a committed loving relationship where they care for each others mental health and working and looking after each other to have a happy and fulfilling life together. What is the point of being in a long term committed relationship with someone if you are essentially going to live separate lives.

@bookmum08

Shroedinger it's not 'subsidizing' if it's a committed loving relationship where they care for each others mental health and working and looking after each other to have a happy and fulfilling life together. What is the point of being in a long term committed relationship with someone if you are essentially going to live separate lives.

Question is. Is the life happy for someone who has to carry all the financial burden? Do you know how stressful that is?

Quite frankly. If someone is able to work ft they should work ft and keep their hobbies for spare time.

If the plan is for you two to live together as a couple then he should be supporting you - emotionally and financially if that's what is needed

Do people still think like this, how awful. That he should be financially supporting her rather than her getting her shit sorted?

Bloody hell.

And yes there are plenty of folks think a partner should finance you. This poster isn’t alone.

What is the point of being in a long term committed relationship with someone if you are essentially going to live separate lives

Pulling your weight financially is not related to caring dor each other, and how is it caring for him to have to carry her? Not getting his money doesn’t mean it’s seperate lives.

Give your head a wobble.

@DillonPanthersTexas

The scenario of your boyfriend wanting to buy a house and wanting you to contribute sounds very unromantic.

Sorry, are you suggesting she pay nothing with the boyfriend picking up all the financial stress?

No, not at all. What I meant was that she doesn’t say “my boyfriend and I have been together for a while now and we want to get a house and build a life together”. Instead it sounds more like boyfriend (MN she calls him this, not partner) has a plan in his mind that he will be buying a house very shortly and has said to her “this is what I am doing, are you going to contribute?”. Not “let’s get a house together as part of our shared future. I mean that to it all sounds very transactional and about him, she doesn’t seem on board with the relationship element of moving to this next stage and he doesn’t appear to think it is relevant. To my mind, it should be the primary consideration before anyone thinks about getting tied into joint property purchase.

I didn’t take it from the OP at all that her boyfriend wants to get a mortgage with her. He sounds like he has a plan, and is moving ahead with it. If he was my child, I’d be telling him buy alone anyway.

I used to be suicidal because I hated my job so much. I felt trapped. Hopeless. I felt I had failed because I hadn't got a 'proper' job (ie well paid) Then I met the man who is now my husband. He has SUPPORTED me. I have SUPPORTED him. We look after each other. Work together to take care of our daughter. So yes he has the 'financial burden' but I contribute too in many many ways. We are married. We are together as a unit. Married (or long term relationship) life isn't just about who pays the bills. It's putting together all the bits and pieces of life together. The OP is clearly unhappy and lost. Her 'boyfriend' should be supporting her if he actually loves her.

The finances associated with relationships have to be pragmatic and not romantic, that’s how people get fucked. It’s very naive to think it should be simoly romantic.

Emotional support is different to romance though.

@Bluntness100

The finances associated with relationships have to be pragmatic and not romantic, that’s how people get fucked. It’s very naive to think it should be simoly romantic.

I absolutely agree. What I am saying is be romantic AND pragmatic, but don’t just be pragmatic if these is no solid romantic relationship to underlying the practical arrangement.

@Bluntness100

The finances associated with relationships have to be pragmatic and not romantic, that’s how people get fucked. It’s very naive to think it should be simoly romantic.

Amen to that!

@bookmum08 I am sorry you went through it, but it is quite different to support someone who became suicidal due to their job and someone who just... Might do that or might do something different. Or maybe study. Or maybe do that...

Does your boyfriend think that ambition = earning lots of money so you can contribute equal amounts to this mortgage?

I imagine the boyfriend in this case thinks ambition = working full time and earning a living wage.

If the plan is for you two to live together as a couple then he should be supporting you - emotionally and financially if that's what is needed.

She is currently a child free adult woman, why does she need financial support?

You sound lost in a world of 'careers'. Not everyone needs a career. Working part time is a rare freedom to be able to have time to do volunteer work.

Not everyone needs a 'career' but they need a job at least that supports themselves. Should the freedom to work part time be at the expense of your partner taking on all the financial burdens, the stress of being the main breadwinner?

If you want to work with animals then there are plenty of volunteer things you could do from helping at a rescue centre, helping at a 'food bank' for people that need support for feeding their pets because their financial circumstances have changed, being a volunteer dog walker. There is a theme park in Northamptonshire that has animals. At the beginning of lock down they had financial problems and staff lost their jobs. But the animals still needed looking after so people did it voluntary.

This is incredible, I am genuinely shocked you think this is a viable option. So you think the OPs boyfriend should bust a gut working full time, pay a mortgage, all the bills, food, holidays, savings etc while she indulges in her wishy washy hobbies for free. Really???

If he wants a serious long term relationship with you then he shouldn't be insisting you must have a full time career. He should be supporting you in what you choose to do. So if that is working part time in something that is 'just a job' (but being happy there) but also spending time being an unpaid busy and enthusiastic person in the community who is making a difference to society then that should be good enough.
As long as have enough money from his work + your part time work combined to afford the mortgage etc then he should be supporting you in figuring out what you want from life.

Whats that often used mumsnet phrase on here....cockloger or something?

If he doesn't want to do that - then I wouldn't want to be with him.

If she takes your advice I think that decision will not be hers.

The finances associated with relationships have to be pragmatic and not romantic, that’s how people get fucked. It’s very naive to think it should be simoly romantic

Indeed

Sadly in Mumsnet land the two are often conflated.

I think you are unlucky re the boyfriend actually. I am more like your bf (in that I've saved a substantial house deposit, not that I've excelled in my career). I've been in two LTRs and neither of them has had a dime. Among my male friends, 7/10 have no savings and at 25 that was 9/10. So I've basically worked my whole life to buy a man a house. I wish I've never done any of it, I wish I'd taken my whole 20s to decide what I want to do and just worked random jobs here and there.

"wishy-washy hobbies"
Have any of you taken your children to an event? A show displaying something or trying something out? Story or craft time at a library or museum? Many of these events are volunteer run as part of their "wishy-washy" hobbies.
My sister has volunteered at an environmental group - creating the type of place you problem take your children on a sunny afternoon and go "isn't this lovely". Essentially that's my sister's "wishy-washy" hobby. If people hadn't volunteered to look after the animals I mentioned above the animals would have died. Some of the volunteers were qualified to do this (essentially the people who had just lost their jobs) some were animal lovers who help and support animals as a "wishy-washy" hobby.
I guess we should tell all the food bank volunteers, people who volunteer to drive people to hospital appointments, people who help with filling out forms for people who struggle with reading, people who volunteer to go into primary schools and do extra reading schemes with children etc - volunteer things that take up the time of a 'full time job' that "sorry you better go and get an actual job because even though your spouse/parents/whoever earns enough to pay the bills it's soooo unfair on them".
And with all those volunteers gone you will soon find society a miserable place.

It’s really hard at the moment. I am in a professional career in the higher tax band range and I can’t even get an interview for jobs I’m over-qualified for. My current job is safe so I can’t even imagine how it must feel looking by for a job when you don’t have fallback option.

I suppose then many of you would call me a female 'cocklodger' just because I don't bring home an actual wage.
Charming.
I do A AWFUL BLOODY LOT to support my husband and our life together, my daughter, my community, my family.

@bookmum08

"wishy-washy hobbies" Have any of you taken your children to an event? A show displaying something or trying something out? Story or craft time at a library or museum? Many of these events are volunteer run as part of their "wishy-washy" hobbies. My sister has volunteered at an environmental group - creating the type of place you problem take your children on a sunny afternoon and go "isn't this lovely". Essentially that's my sister's "wishy-washy" hobby. If people hadn't volunteered to look after the animals I mentioned above the animals would have died. Some of the volunteers were qualified to do this (essentially the people who had just lost their jobs) some were animal lovers who help and support animals as a "wishy-washy" hobby. I guess we should tell all the food bank volunteers, people who volunteer to drive people to hospital appointments, people who help with filling out forms for people who struggle with reading, people who volunteer to go into primary schools and do extra reading schemes with children etc - volunteer things that take up the time of a 'full time job' that "sorry you better go and get an actual job because even though your spouse/parents/whoever earns enough to pay the bills it's soooo unfair on them". And with all those volunteers gone you will soon find society a miserable place.

This is all great, and stuff which people should be doing. But they first have to be in a position to give up that time. Each of us should be able to pay our way to a roof over our head and cover our bills, and then spare time can be spent helping other people. Relying on others to pay your way while you volunteer isn’t a viable trade-off. If your source of support is cut off - and accidents and tragedies happen every day - leaving you with no job and no home, then you immediately become a burden to others, not a helpmeet.

@bookmum08

I suppose then many of you would call me a female 'cocklodger' just because I don't bring home an actual wage. Charming. I do A AWFUL BLOODY LOT to support my husband and our life together, my daughter, my community, my family.

This thread is NOT about you🤷🏻

Op doesn't have a husband, doesn't have a daughter, nor she mentioned supporting community.

If he wants a serious long term relationship with you then he shouldn't be insisting you must have a full time career. He should be supporting you in what you choose to do. So if that is working part time in something that is 'just a job' (but being happy there) but also spending time being an unpaid busy and enthusiastic person in the community who is making a difference to society then that should be good enough.
As long as have enough money from his work + your part time work combined to afford the mortgage etc then he should be supporting you in figuring out what you want from life.

It’s nice that your husband financially supports you bookmum but I don’t think it’s fair to expect every man to support a non-working or part-time working partner.

Of course there are couples who decide things between them (SAHP contribution is immense) and some couples may decide even when kids start school that one partner manages the household whilst the other person works OOO. And that’s fine.

But you seem to see it as the man’s obligation to support a woman even when no children are involved and that is a bit cocklodger I’m afraid.