To expect my husband to stay at home this Christmas

[Cloudsandrainbows]

Sorry this is complicated and long winded, will try to get to the point. I have two children and my husband has another from a previous relationship....which for many reasons I have not seen in 3 years(the mother is very nasty, and always calling the shots, court would make no difference, she's not the sort to listen to a court order, and it's been so long and the relationship between me and this child has been too severely damaged to repair, not to mention the impact on my children to attempt a reconsilliation again), however my husband has still had regular contact every other weekend, and until the pandemic was staying overnight at his parents on those weekends.
With christmas looming I am anticipating the next hurdle. It is his turn to have his other child on Xmas Eve and day. They have for the past 4 years been taking turns rather than having half the day each as previously, which was unfair as my husband had to do all the running around in the middle of our Christmas dinner. 2 years ago, when it was last his turn, I was left heavily pregnant with a 3 year old over Xmas, and decided to go to my mums, which didn't actually help as my then 3 year old still spent hours upon hours crying for her daddy on Christmas Eve, and the whole experience was very upsetting all round. Our youngest will be almost 2 by Christmas and I'm upset for him as well as my 5 year old that they will not have their dad on Christmas day. I understand he wants to see his other child and have no issue with that, but I feel he should be spending the day with us. His other child wouldn't miss out by having Christmas with her mother instead, but our children will be devastated to not have daddy at home. I cannot imagine him telling her mother he can't have her this Christmas or asking to change the arrangements, or her accepting any changes but I feel he needs to put his foot down and do right by us for a change. Am I being unreasonable to expect him to spend Christmas with us instead of his other child?

[quote Cloudsandrainbows]@lyralalala he has fought for her, but as soon he starts pushing she either withdraws contact and or starts poisoning SD against him also. I have heard with my own ears, her telling SD that her dad doesn't love her! If he went to court it takes time, and all that time he would then be refused contact, and he isn't prepared to do it, as the whole time the poor child will be being poisoned by her mum to hate him also. In not pushing I think he is trying to protect her from more mental harm. He really is stuck in the middle and I appreciate that, but I feel he is too scared to stand up to her but doesn't mind upsetting me or our children 😥[/quote]
By now it would be sorted and you'd all be in a better position.

Instead you've both allowed it to drag on and now you are in this position.

You've accepted his stance, and by the fact you've said it'll be to upsetting for your children to meet her it sounds like you agree with it.

So now you need to accept that for the next 4 years, until she is 16 and can make her own decisions, Christmases need to be alternated.

It's not good, but you cannot have it all ways. Your children will get used to Christmas being different in alternate years just as your DSD has.

Between you both you can normalise this for your children and save them being upset, but it will take effort from you both.

@Ch0colatecake

Cloudsandrainbows Not sure why everyone seems to be having a go at you. Think your husband needs to grow a backbone and stand up to the ex. I would feel exactly the same if every Christmas he left his family and DC who he lives with to go and spend time with his first born. Has he thought about how this will affect your DC when they are old enough to understand what he’s doing? or is he just bothered about his first born?

'first born' in this context just sounds so bitter... She's his DD.

Anyway, I would agree BUT OPs situation is not normal. It is not the norm for blended families, it is severely dysfunctional due to what sounds like a huge backstory.

It doesn't really do any good to say what you or I would feel about our husbands going off at Christmas. We aren't in this situation. By the sounds of it, right now, in the OPs particular situation, this is the only way for a 12 year old child to see her Dad every other Christmas because no other options seem to be plausible to anyone involved (other than the DSD just never getting to spend Christmas day with her Dad which OP seems to think is a reasonable compromise... ).

It is mean to say she's used to 2 Xmases etc. because rightly or wrongly, her normal
for at least the last few years is seeing Dad on Xmas Day. Presumably he wants to see all kids on the 25th and splitting the day in half is his idea of a solution. You are being mean for proposing that your kids have a whole day with him on the 25th when they could have a special day with both of you on another day. Rocking the boat over Christmas is a risky strategy to take when the other mum is so volatile and takes time and you'd need to follow the legal process because sometimes mums do lose power if they disobey judges

It's not sd fault that things ended up like this. (it's not yours either) However her Dad is happy to put his head in the sand and let things drag on like this so all you can do is discuss how to deliver a happy Christmas to your kids and work around the "tradition" that has been created by others.

I can actually empathise with your position OP. People on MN will always weigh in to tell you the older children have it harder but the fact is the younger children are often impacted negatively by their dad having another child, and it sounds like yours have drawn the short straw of their dad's ex forcing a situation where he must always see her separately and be pulled away from them, a situation that is outside of your control. That is upsetting and frustrating, especially with your children reaching the age where the burden falls on you to explain it to them. It is tough.

I don't think you should be uncomfortable really..your DSD is 12 and was even younger at the time of any fallout, a time at which you said yourself she was also being manipulated. It's up to you to be the adult and welcome her in as normal a way as possible if you get to meet and/or reconcile.

What will happen as your DC get older if they want to see their sister? They could see their dad on Christmas day now if they could also see their sister, although I appreciate the cirumstances of you not being there would be hard to explain.

I think that you and your DH need to consider that things may be about to change a lot. Your DSD has already said she would like to see you, and is getting towards an age where she will increase assess things and think for herself about this, possibly challenge her mother more. With no court order in place to prevent her seeing your or your DC (and no reason for one to exist) her mother's power could be seriously on the wane. No court will support her separating siblings and families without good reason, and she possibly will have a teenager fast approaching a age where she can choose for herself who she sees or where she lives.

@LolaSmiles so you would say SD comes first? She should have Xmas with daddy and our joint children should not see him?
I've not said she comes first. I've said that he has several children and it's totally reasonable for children to see their dad every other Christmas day if the adults can't bring themselves to put the kids first.

So it's unreasonable for him to see them all on Christmas day but separately?
It's unreasonable for you to decide that one set of children absolutely have to see their dad on Christmas day and all other arrangements must fall around what you want.

I did not force a relationship upon a child who did not want to see me, is that also wrong?
She does now say she would like to see me and has done for some time but the mother will still not allow
Your SD has 3 adults in her life.
When this situation occurred she was 9! The adults involved had an obligation to resolve this and work towards blending the family, not sit back and blame a 9 year old for not having the emotional maturity to process the fall outs of adult relationship dramas.

Lots and lots of families have to deal with one parent not there at Christmas. Those who work, lone parents, absent parents, Families separated by visa issues, blended families etc

It really isn’t a big deal for your children not to see their Father on Christmas Day. My kids won’t see me Christmas Day this year but we will celebrate Christmas on the next available date we are all together again.

The compromise for parents with step children, children with ex partners where there is no blended family is to alternate Christmas.

I'm sure most children miss their daddy or mummy. It really is up to you to manage and discuss your children's expectations, if daddy is not at home for Christmas Day.
It is how you deliver and manage this! You really are making a drama of it!
Many poster's have stated to have a better day/"Christmas" day with the family the day after. Do something else, do something fun every other year when it's just the three of you.
All the other families in the whole of western Europe/world/civilisation I'm sure with other children/step children have to alternate special days. You're being selfish!
Your children are not more important than his first born. Suck it up and look forward to having him home next year

I think to mend this situation bridges have got to be built. I would say you want your dh to bring SD to you at xmas.. or you go to where they are. Maybe atart now, meet them at a park with your DC and start slowly. She is always going to be in his life as are your children. You HAVE to make this work

Don’t know if you’re BU or not however can it not go back to half and half so xmas eve and half the day with his DD then home to you, or the other way round? Yes it cuts his day up with running around but if it’s about the kids it’s not a big sacrifice. I would however be looking at your husband talking things through over time so that your SD maybe becomes more receptive to becoming a family unit with you all too. She’s surely old enough to understand.

Your children will take your lead.

You are in a relationship with a parent whose ex hates you. Your kids undwrstand the christmas you present. There is no short term fix and this is just the way it is.

Please model something positive here for all the children involved.

My daughter is 12. It sounds like you think 12 is half grown up. It really isn’t. Tbh 12 year olds in some ways, are actually like giant toddlers. They make the most stupid mistakes and don’t yet have the empathy of a 14 or 15 yo. The prefrontal cortex in the brain is only half formed by 18.

A lot of people have picked up part of what you’ve said, so I won’t re iterate that. Please do though re read what you said about how your DSD, as a primary aged child, used to pretend to her mother she had a bad time when she was around you just to please her - when she actually had a great time. How screwed up. Yet you, a fully fledged adult, fully acknowledging that your 5 and 2 year olds will be fooled into believing Boxing Day evening is Christmas Eve are upset because you will know different.

Christ woman. Give your head a wobble. Stop with the woe is me act and find some empathy. Your DSD surely doesn’t hate you. She’s a confused and manipulated little girl. You’re blaming a child, a victim.

His other child wouldn't miss out by having Christmas with her mother instead, but our children will be devastated to not have daddy at home

Firstly, devastated is a bit of a stretch for such young children. They only see Christmas as this big family event if adults push that on to them.

But let’s use your word. Why is it devastating for your children but not for his other child?

OP I completely understand your situation. My ex Dp has a child from a previous relationship, the child's mother was an absolute nightmare. Once the child got to old for her to call the shots without looking bad in front on the child she then manipulated and guilt tripped the child into hating me, my kids and even at points his own father! Point blank refused to turn up to any mediation or family therapy because she knew she wouldn't be in control! It's a form of mental abuse and your husband should be going to court to stop this happening.

Thank you @Jenstar123 it is really getting me down 3 years down the line and further forward, but I feel it's almost past any possible resolve, but hopefully not long until DSD is old enough to do as she wants without her mum's permission and then things might be easier.
I am having a really tough time at the moment, not just this situation, life in general. I know I'm not alone, pandemic not helping anyone right now either.
I was kinda hoping for a bit more support and genuine advice from here rather than a step parent battering! Really feel rock bottom today 😥

Why is it devastating for your children but not for his other child?

Because according to the OP his DD is used to having separated parents or, using her words, 'a broken home'...

Would your DH consider going back to half and half so all the DC can see him on Xmas day? Maybe he could alternate that each year so he would still see DSD every other Xmas but also the DC you have together won’t miss out. We might be another lockdown by Xmas anyway and DH will have to stay at home

Just seen your reply OP, I think it is totally unfair some people’s replies on here they just love to take a bash at step parents, please try not to take it personally, hang in there

I was kinda hoping for a bit more support and genuine advice from here rather than a step parent battering!

I honestly regularly stand up for SPs on these boards because I think they often get unfairly treated and I have spoken out against things some posters have said on this thread too.

But I can't support everything someone says just because they are a step parent. You've been really hypocritical here on your expectations for your children Vs those for your DSD.

I've said and will say again, I do not envy you your situation, it sounds hard, it sounds upsetting and I do feel for you. I really do.

But if you and your DH are going to accept the way things are in terms of your DSD and not push court or whatever then you do also need to accept that this is likely to be the way things are.

It's not on to say things like your DSD has a mum to spend Christmas with, because so do your children. It's not on to say she's from a broken home so should be used to it anyway, as I said, your children weren't born into a straightforward nuclear family either so there will be things they have to get used to as well.

I'm not suggesting the situation is your fault or your doing at all, but it doesn't mean I agree a 12 year old child should be the one making all the compromise when it comes to spending Christmas with her father.

She isn't more important than your DC, I think a lot of posters on MN do think step children are more important than resident children and I don't like that or agree at all, but in this situation she also isn't less important either.

I honestly don’t think OP was meaning to sound offensive against DSD with those comments I think she was just being matter of fact about it. It is a fact that DSD’s parents broke up when she was several months old so she never had both parents together (that is all she has known and use to spending Christmas’s with just Mum) where as DC it is the opposite - their parents have always been together so spending every other Xmas without their Dad whilst also being at those young ages must be upsetting.

What a terrrible situation, especially for the children. They are half siblings aren't they? are yours his as well? He needs to man up to this ex of his and go to the courts, she will listen she will have no choice. This is a awful arrangement for your family

OP, in the kindest way, I think you're being selfish.
You seem to dislike your DH's first daughter. For whatever reasons, you see your relationship with her as damaged beyond repair.
However, you must accept that your DH will always be her DF, and he must do what he can to see her and spend quality time with her. He is her DF the same as he is DF to your DC. For whatever reasons, this has to be away from you/your DC. So either you sort out that situation, or you accept that your DH has to split his time between his children. Do not treat his first daughter as second-best, who doesn't deserve xmas with her DF

As a step mum, and as (now) a single mom, and having seen how BAD exwives can behave (both my exes first wife and my sil) i have buckets and buckets of sympathy for you.

Saying that, i do agree that by choosing not to involve court, you haven't helped yourselves, ex-SIL is an epic bitch, but CAFFCASS and the judge saw right through her attempts at parental alienation where my niece was concerned.. and at nearly 12, niece is VERY aware of what a nasty piece of work my ex-sil is!

My SD also came very aware of how badly her mom behaved in regards to her relationship with my ex, and SD is an adult and now has an amazin relationship with her dad.

On my part.. ex and i have kept it amicable, and i do my best to make sure he sees the kids regularly.

I understand its hard for your kids not to see dad every other christmas, but i think at this point, with DSD growing older, and starting to make her own mind up about you, you need to just grit your teeth this christmas, because if you're taking it in turns, in 2years time, DSD will be 14 and old enough to pretty much make her own mind up, and things could be very different.

I know this isn't what you want, but its a storm you're going to have to weather for this year.

I was kinda hoping for a bit more support and genuine advice from here rather than a step parent battering!

You didn't get harsh replies because you are a step parent. You got harsh replies because some of your comments about your step daughter deserved harsh replies.

She's a 12 year old child who is equally important to your children. Your "compromise" is that she misses out completely and your comment about her not missing out if she didn't see her father showed a complete disregard for her.

Now that may not be what you intended, but it is what you said.

People tried to give support and suggestions, but when you don't split day (in your OP you complained about it), you don't want your DH to go to court and you don't want to try and fix the relationship with your DSD then there are only three options - your DH sees only his DD as it's her turn, your DH sees only your children, or your DH takes your children without you so he sees all of his children.

Now, presumably the third one isn't an option for you so that leaves two. Unfortunately for you the option that you prefer, your DH not seeing his DD because your children would like to spend it with him, is not the one that other people agree is fair.

In your set up the children see your DH on alternate years for now. That was acceptable last year when it was your children's turn so therefore it is acceptable this year when it is not.

I agree, hypocritical and selfish.

No it's not your fault your DS's mum won't play ball.

But it is your DH's fault for not going to court.

And if your DH really feels court would make things worse, then he has to play ball with his ex to maintain a relationship with his DD which takes priority. It takes priority because he sees your DCs almost every day of the year.

You can schedule your Christmas celebration before or after the actual day if that is the only available option under the current conditions. And it is the right thing to do if your DH and his ex can't come to another agreement.

You can set the tone with your DCs about the time when your DH is elsewhere. Just like all the other families (NHS, firefighters, police, paramedics, military, etc) that have to do this when it's their turn to work on the holiday itself.