To expect my husband to stay at home this Christmas

[Cloudsandrainbows]

Sorry this is complicated and long winded, will try to get to the point. I have two children and my husband has another from a previous relationship....which for many reasons I have not seen in 3 years(the mother is very nasty, and always calling the shots, court would make no difference, she's not the sort to listen to a court order, and it's been so long and the relationship between me and this child has been too severely damaged to repair, not to mention the impact on my children to attempt a reconsilliation again), however my husband has still had regular contact every other weekend, and until the pandemic was staying overnight at his parents on those weekends.
With christmas looming I am anticipating the next hurdle. It is his turn to have his other child on Xmas Eve and day. They have for the past 4 years been taking turns rather than having half the day each as previously, which was unfair as my husband had to do all the running around in the middle of our Christmas dinner. 2 years ago, when it was last his turn, I was left heavily pregnant with a 3 year old over Xmas, and decided to go to my mums, which didn't actually help as my then 3 year old still spent hours upon hours crying for her daddy on Christmas Eve, and the whole experience was very upsetting all round. Our youngest will be almost 2 by Christmas and I'm upset for him as well as my 5 year old that they will not have their dad on Christmas day. I understand he wants to see his other child and have no issue with that, but I feel he should be spending the day with us. His other child wouldn't miss out by having Christmas with her mother instead, but our children will be devastated to not have daddy at home. I cannot imagine him telling her mother he can't have her this Christmas or asking to change the arrangements, or her accepting any changes but I feel he needs to put his foot down and do right by us for a change. Am I being unreasonable to expect him to spend Christmas with us instead of his other child?

OK I actually read some of your further comments... Clearly just got triggered! Sorry was a bit of a bitch there. It sounds like a shit situation all round.

How about the beginning of a compromise. With the aim of working towards a more cohesive family where the siblings know each other and you do family stuff together?

Step 1. Every second weekend from now until Christmas DH and DD1 stay at grandparents but you meet up on Saturday and do a family activity together (keep it short to start with but super fun to distract the kids and keep them all occupied).

Step 2. Half way through the term the grandparents start "hosting" (ie at their place but everyone contributes to the meal) a friday night or Sunday lunch style meal. Once again make it super fun - involve the kids in the making of the meal (dad can make a dish with dd1, you can make a dish with dd2&3) . Make sure the meal involves kids favourites where possible. Then play a fun game afterwards. Only give compliments towards your dsd. Eg, cooking, lovely manners, pretty smile ( anything).

Step 3
The lead up to Christmas.
Your dh takes dd1 Christmas shopping for ( small) presents she can gift to her siblings. And then he takes dd2 &3 shopping for a gift for their sister.
You do some "family" type christmas things together in the lead up ( covid permitting) eg, santa photo, gingerbread houses, making Christmas decorations, putting up the tree ( your house and grandparents ( win, win), ice skating, Christmas lights drive with snack stop. This activities must be seen to be organised by DH and he needs to be enthusiastic and the driving force. You just need to be warm, supportive and enthusiastic towards everything. Fake it until you make it. Channel actress of the year if you have to. I'd suggest that any ruffles or misbehaviour from any of the kids is handled by Dad.

Step 5. Christmas
The new habits should be well worn in by now.
Christmas eve. Together at the grandparents. Do a family meal, watch a smaltzy family Christmas movie all together, make a "special" Christmas snack or dessert to have with the movie. You head home. The next day your house hosts lunch DH and dd1 arrive early to help. Grandparents can rock up at meal time. Lovely meal is had- DH gives a toast at the meal about how lovely it is to have all his daughter's together. Heap praise on DD1 for the time and effort she's put in learning how to be a big sister, very proud etc. After lunch gift giving- you give a special gift to DD1. Say youve really enjoyed getting to know her better and thank her for something she's been doing well.

Step 6. If Christmas day goes well. Invite dd1 and Dh to stay over at home. Grandparents go home alone.

Step 7. Make overnight invitations more and more regular until it's at least 1 night of each weekend ( set dd1 up with her own space in the house by this point) .

Step 7 - book a family holiday ( with the grandparents if you think it's needed) have lots of fun . Then after this start making both nights staying yours.

You've gor to start doing something. Even baby steps like this will make some progress. Then hopefully by the time it's DHs turn for Christmas again then she'll be staying with you not the grandparents anymore.

Best of luck!
(And yes I've had first-hand experience with step kids and an antagonistic exwife. Court helps but so will this. The "Carrot and stick" approach is needed when dealing with stubborn exs. The court is the "stick" NOT an actual stick. 😉

It's turning into a real issue now as PIL not happy to have DH DSD over night only for dinner. (Kinda what I wanted in the first place I know...but) Obviously ex has kicked off....why dinner but not the night, what's the difference. She actually has a point for once, but PIL are very paranoid about the virus and it's not for her or DH to make them do what they aren't comfortable with.

Interesting to see she's just as ridiculously entitled and controlling about her ex PILs household as she is about yours 🙄 Is there anything she doesn't consider herself relevant enough to "kick off" about? What if they just wanted to see someone else on Christmas? Everyone in the world is at her beck and call in her mind, obviously. The idea that she genuinely expected to be able to tell you to leave your home and two children on Christmas Day, so that her daughter could spend it there with absolutely no valid reason you couldn't be around her (like safeguarding) shows she is not of sound mind. How could anyone be this self absorbed and delusional?

If you genuinely can't disregard what she says without it leading to contact being denied, then I really can't see a solution to her behaviour other than court, and feel like it's the elephant in the room at this point. She is being completely unreasonable and your DH needs legal reinforcement of the fact that there is NO valid reason to bar you and DSD from being in the same house.

In terms of how to reintroduce the siblings in the scenario where you can actually do this without her mum "kicking off" in the background, I think Nittersing has given good advice. Starting with one day visits and building up seems like a good starting point.

Also, does your DH ever video call DSD? This could be a good opportunity for the kids to talk without you having to be involved and spark WW26 with mum.

So. Basically, there's a 12 year old girl feeling torn, miserable and unloved by all the adults in her life???

Fix it.

Stop arguing over semantics, and show that girl some love.

@CaffeineInfusion ive wanted to show that girl some live for years, but I have in the past been accused of 'mothering' DSD which resulted in denied contact! Ok maybe I was stepping on toes but just trying to treat her like I would my own.....if I remember rightly one cause of ex's distress was that I cut up her roast dinner for her one weekend! Yes really! The woman I think must have some mental health issues, not to be laughed at, but the only thing that's makes sense of some of her actions!
Video call good idea @aSofaNearYou ....hadn't actually thought of that! Will see if her phone gets taken off her after that! @Nittersing thank you for all your advice, all sounds good ideas, but PIL I don't think will be involved in this process, maybe they've just enough of having DSD at weekends, maybe it is really Covid causing them a lot of anxiety, but they aren't interested in anyone staying over for the foreseeable. I haven't seen them in a very long time now, and can't say I'm upset by it....not the most exciting at their place. No one is allowed to connect to their WiFi, don't know why, but obviously 11 year with a mobile wasn't happy about it. They don't have a very child friendly house either to be honest so will have to stick to outdoor activities and events for now.
Going to broach subject with DH later about booking something chrismassy. I think we should go separately, he can take DSD and I'll take these 2, maybe make it a surprise? Or would that be a bit much?
Anyway ground work to do first with making initial contact... Wish me luck!

I am leaning towards ignoring ex and maybe accidentally on purpose bumping into DH with DSD one weekend? Once she's seen me once without exes knowledge in advance then can she really still deny? Surely if her DD is ok with it, and she kicks off, she will show her true colours in front of DD and maybe not be so open to her mother's manipulation and brainwashing?
Back to Xmas things, she doesn't believe in father Christmas ..... Would a 12 year old think it's lame to go see Santa with her younger siblings? Really not clued up on pre teens, and been so long since I last saw her, she's not going to be interested in any of the same things?!

FYI current situation is ex still refusing any contact at Christmas ..... She now wants all her presents from DH and PIL dropped off Xmas eve to her!
As far as we are aware contact at weekends still stands....will have to wait for the next weekend and see I guess

@whatsyournamenow I don't appreciate your comments. Yes my DD cried for hours for her father, why is that hard to believe or something to judge? Are you implying I am not a good mum to her, and she wants her dad? Not sure what you mean by looking closer to home and addressing the issues with my own kids either? She's autistic, and very sensitive to change in routine, it can't be cured in case you didn't know!

@Cloudsandrainbows You don't appreciate my comments? Don't post on a forum then? 🤔

Not saying you're not a good mum, BUT lots of mums have to deal with the fathers being away over Christmas!

Surgeons or doctors on day shifts, so children do t see them.

Soldiers

Sailors

RAF

Police officers

Shall I go on?

I'm sure that the parent that's looking after the child, be them a mother or father doesn't have a three year old crying for hours on end!

But you do, because...........

You're not handling it correctly!

Also @Cloudsandrainbows where in your previous posts did the Metin that your child was autistic?

But of a MASSIVE drip feed!

How can you accuse me of not understanding, when you've not disclosed it?

*mention

@whatsyournamenow OP did mention her child has autism earlier, not a drip feed.

Sounds like a very difficult situation all round @Cloudsandrainbows, whatever the reason for the absence of a parent at Christmas it's tough on the partners and children who are missing them. Hope you manage to find an arrangement that works for you all.

@whatsyournamenow wow your a real nice person. Why bother commenting late in the day when you haven't read everything and nothing but abuse to give?
So I'm not a bad mum but I'm not handling my child correctly......ok miss Trunchball, advice noted! Hope your kids have a merry Christmas!

@whatsyournamenow

Also *@Cloudsandrainbows* where in your previous posts did the Metin that your child was autistic?

But of a MASSIVE drip feed!

How can you accuse me of not understanding, when you've not disclosed it?

It's in the OP's 2nd post on the thread

I am a social worker.

Some of the comments on here are disgraceful.

It's irrelevant that some children aren't with their dad on Christmas Day because he's working etc. This situation is entirely avoidable. The OP, her partner and all of the children COULD be together on Christmas Day should this not have been sabotaged by the ex partner.

Why should the OP's children have to celebrate Christmas on a completely different day to suit the unreasonable demands of the DSD's mum? If DSD was coming over on Boxing Day I would understand the family waiting to celebrate with her, but this is a completely different scenario.

OP hasn't said she doesn't want DSD in her house. She has clearly explained that she would have liked for this to continue but the arrangement has been undermined and DSD's mum has refused to allow this for so long that it feels irreparable. As a 12 year old, if an application was made to court, she could say I do not want to see my dad and wouldn't be forced to do so.

I completely agree that the DP is accountable for this. He should never have allowed this situation to fester and could have taken a different course of action from the onset. If he had, this could have been avoidable.

My view is that the expectation should be that DSD has every opportunity to spend Christmas with her dad, in her home with dad, alongside her dad's partner and two younger siblings. If she refuses, that's really unfortunate but ultimately her decision.

@whatsyournamenow That's got to be the first time I've seen someone tell a mother of an autistic child they just "haven't handled it right", with absolutely no details of how she has handled it 🤨

@conduitoffortune has it spot on.

Trick the children into thinking December 26 is actually Christmas and that he only had to be away “Christmas Eve”. Unless they’re teenagers or something they won’t figure it out

@DisgruntledGuineaPig

So its October, you start now.

Your dh is equally dsd's parent to her mum. If what he believes is best for her is to have a relationship with her siblings (and if he doesn't, he can explain to you why he doesn't see that as in her best interests), it starts now.

She comes to your house, not PILs now. He will have to have the fight he should have had when you were first pregnant.

ExW might not like that your dcs exist, but how is it helping DSD to go along with the pretence they don't?

She visits now. Builds up time at your house. Perhaps your DH brings her to your house to stay the weekend, but takes her out on her own for part of the day still. Or takes her with your oldest dc to visit PILs.

Stop putting fear of ExW kicking off above what's best for all the children. This arrangement is bad for DSD, she has siblings she's kept away from. She's not welcome in her dad's house. Her dad's new wife doesn't see her. How is that going to feel? It won't be her mum she blames as an adult.

Start now. Dsd goes to stay at her dads house in his contact time. That's normal.

This. Your dh is the one who needs to be dealing with this better.

Also, there are 12 days of christmas. I never understand why people think christmas ends on boxing day. Why not begin celebrating throughout the season and making new traditions for your family so christmas day doesnt feel like such a negative one? split the gifts across the fortnight. Have special meals every day. Me and dh both had the full two weeks off last year and we had such a good time with special christmas breakfast every morning, and other christmas activities going on throughout. The children loved it.

@BubblyBarbara

Trick the children into thinking December 26 is actually Christmas and that he only had to be away “Christmas Eve”. Unless they’re teenagers or something they won’t figure it out

It IS christmas! No need to trick them. Just be accurate!!!

Thank you @conduitoffortune that is exactly what is so frustrating about this situation, it is avoidable! The actions and demands of this woman have caused no end of issues. She's never going to change, she always finds a problem with something, when DSD was still 4 I got an ear bashing for 'mothering' her as she had found out I had cut up her roast dinner for her!? There were other things she took issue with in the early days, all things you think someone should be grateful for, as I tried to treat her as I would my own ... Maybe she felt threatened and I was treading on toes but it didn't end there, just got more and more nasty over the years. I shouted at DSD once, to stop, as she was riding her bike towards a road and I couldn't catch up, that also resulted in denied access and a torrent of abuse! At the start of this latest episode she even told her own child that I had told her I wouldn't save her if the house caught fire!! It came up in counceling, which she strenuously denied and as soon as I went to get my phone out to show the proof of her messages she got aggressive and stormed out, that was the end of that! Believe you me we have tried to resolve the situation, I have written letters, sent texts etc but all been blocked by the ex, and we have spent hundreds on counceling and mediation but she never does her part. We have had legal advice and unfortunately parent alienation is almost impossible to prove, and as soon as she receives court summons, access will be denied again, giving her ample time to further poison her child against us, and as she is of a certain age cafcass will take the childs wishes into account and that could result in no contact at all. That is why we haven't gone down that road. Not to mention the fact this woman would never abide by a court order anyway. It's all what suits her at the time, and I guarantee if PIL were still having DSD over night she wouldn't have backed down on her seeing siblings, she wants to force my DH to have her overnight here so she can have her nights off still, but wants me out the picture. I've never understood her hatred towards me, I have bent over backwards to help her with childcare in the past, but in reality she just took the piss, but I was eager to please and make an amicable relationship for the sake of the kids. I can't see things will ever be as they should, as she hasn't lost momentum yet with her mission to drive me out of my own home and away from my own kids, but one day DSD will be old enough to make her own choices, and that was the day I was waiting for, before pushing the ex for change, that will no doubt result in yet more abuse and sleepless nights. It is a truly exhausting situation and I still have reservations about introducing the children, as she could deny access again at any time and then the children will be torn apart yet again! But like PP have said, she is 12, so hopefully is starting to have more power over her mum and speak up for what she wants.