To expect my husband to stay at home this Christmas

[Cloudsandrainbows]

Sorry this is complicated and long winded, will try to get to the point. I have two children and my husband has another from a previous relationship....which for many reasons I have not seen in 3 years(the mother is very nasty, and always calling the shots, court would make no difference, she's not the sort to listen to a court order, and it's been so long and the relationship between me and this child has been too severely damaged to repair, not to mention the impact on my children to attempt a reconsilliation again), however my husband has still had regular contact every other weekend, and until the pandemic was staying overnight at his parents on those weekends.
With christmas looming I am anticipating the next hurdle. It is his turn to have his other child on Xmas Eve and day. They have for the past 4 years been taking turns rather than having half the day each as previously, which was unfair as my husband had to do all the running around in the middle of our Christmas dinner. 2 years ago, when it was last his turn, I was left heavily pregnant with a 3 year old over Xmas, and decided to go to my mums, which didn't actually help as my then 3 year old still spent hours upon hours crying for her daddy on Christmas Eve, and the whole experience was very upsetting all round. Our youngest will be almost 2 by Christmas and I'm upset for him as well as my 5 year old that they will not have their dad on Christmas day. I understand he wants to see his other child and have no issue with that, but I feel he should be spending the day with us. His other child wouldn't miss out by having Christmas with her mother instead, but our children will be devastated to not have daddy at home. I cannot imagine him telling her mother he can't have her this Christmas or asking to change the arrangements, or her accepting any changes but I feel he needs to put his foot down and do right by us for a change. Am I being unreasonable to expect him to spend Christmas with us instead of his other child?

Because nine times out of ten it's used passive aggressively. Same as when people insist on calling kids a "second family".

And nine times out of ten it stems from bitterness and projection, tbh.

Just happened to check in on MN and saw these last few posts. 'first born' has never been used by myself in a passive aggressive way, and I too believe it has no importance in what order children are born, they are all children and equal in importance regardless. However my DSD mother has regularly used the fact her DD is my husband's first born as a status of importance, she for some reason believes that her DD should come first and foremost always, as she was first born and that our family consisting of my DH myself and our 2 children are somewhat second and separate, and it has always been used in a negative term even to her DD that daddy's 'other family' or 'new family' are somehow more important to her Dad than she is simply because we exist it seems. This does seem a common train of through upon exes for some reason and does not in any way help the step children, and this is the situation I am facing. An extremely hateful and negative ex that has spent years using her DD as a weapon and feeding her poison to make her feel unwanted by myself and even her own father. Currently my DH and DSD have a good relationship and I would not want that boat to be rocked as his ex will stop contact as soon as things don't go her way and it can sometimes take months to get things back on track. All you step mum haters out there need to understand I am not taking sides or hating my DSD, it is her awful mother that I have issue with, but he won't be going anywhere anytime soon, and it hurts me more so when it is my children she is now negatively impacting in a regular basis. She doesn't seem to see my children as innocent parties and simply wants to cause them upset in a bid to also upset me. Am I that awful for wanting my kids to be happy? I have to say I have over the past few years detached myself from my DSD as the mother causes too much grief if I even speak to her on the phone, so maybe I am not as considerate of her as I used to be, however I would never stop or harm her relationship with her father, but don't think there should be turn taking for Christmas in the current situation. I just think it should be equal each Christmas, all kids should get to see their dad, surely that's not an unreasonable request? Perhaps turn taking for the Christmas dinner could be a compromise? This woman won't ever back down and allow me to be part of her DDs life so I am trying to make the best of a bad situation, but cannot face another Christmas of lone parenting when I am in fact married, and my children are fully aware when their dad is here or not and would want to see him too. The situation as it stands would mean they see their dad on the morning of the 24th and not see him again until 26th night, if he is home before bedtime....however last year although he spent Christmas day itself wit us he spent Christmas Eve and boxing day and the day after with DSD... I hope you can now see how I am seeing this situation as unfair, especially when it has been dictated by his ex! And having had the previous Christmas to last on my own from Xmas Eve until late boxing day, I know what it's like and it's not an experience I want to repeat myself, or for my DD.
There is the added complication of Corona virus which may mean that households cannot mix.....in which case would he even be allowed to see DSD? I know at the beginning of lockdown children with two households were allowed to still go between, but DSD technically doesn't come into our house, she goes to grandparents to see her father so in effect that's 3 households .... And I'm not sure I'm comfortable with mixing households if it's not advised or allowed. It's all still going round in my head as the ex has demanded yesterday that my husband commit to plans for Christmas for times he will be picking up dripping off etc... As she will be out Xmas eve, Xmas day

Don't worry a few more years and you probably won't have to deal with her at all. It's pretty easy to push out the first child - I should know.

And I like a lot how you make it a point of pride that your children don't come from a broken home. Those in glass houses and all that..

To be honest OP I’m not sure how you put up with this nonsense.

Not your step child but the utter ridiculousness of the situation with your husband’s ex.

He should’ve gone to court the SECOND all this shit kicked off. Not it’s too late and difficult to unpick.

I would not stay in a relationship where so much of my life was dictated by another person.

@Cloudsandrainbows

I think your DH should just tell her he will be picking DSD up on Christmas Eve and is bringing her to HIS house for the holiday. If they have an issue with that and pull out of plans, she is the bad guy. DSD MUST be welcomed by you and DCs. If she speaks out of line or is stroppy your DH needs to tell her it is not acceptable within this household.

End of. No discussions, no arguments.

Do you not have a relationship with your DH parents?

What did you mean about social services and the risk to your children of trying to reconcile with DSD?

Unless I’ve missed something that seems to have been glossed over and must be relevant.

Sorry, but adding Covid drama to your post just shows that your only interest is having your DH stay at home with you and your children. Your DH can see his DD.

You have no interest in your DSD - it would likely be easier for you if you just accepted that and were open about it. That way your husband can work out what to do going forward.

The simple fact is - she is your husband's daughter and it is her turn to spend Christmas with her father. You've known this since last Christmas yet you and your husband have done nothing about going to court to recitify the situation.

She's 12. In a few years she'll be making her own decisions so you'll just have to live with the situation that has been allowed to happen until then.

Sadly this is what happens when people take the quiet life option with a difficult co-parent and don't go to court to put a proper plan in place.

I would never stop or harm her relationship with her father, but don't think there should be turn taking for Christmas in the current situation
So your children should get their dad and stuff his other child.

but cannot face another Christmas of lone parenting when I am in fact married, and my children are fully aware when their dad is here or not and would want to see him too
Well, you're married so stuff his other child, after all you've already said she should accept being sidelined because she's from a 'broken home'.

There is the added complication of Corona virus which may mean that households cannot mix.....in which case would he even be allowed to see DSD? I know at the beginning of lockdown children with two households were allowed to still go between, but DSD technically doesn't come into our house, she goes to grandparents to see her father so in effect that's 3 households .... And I'm not sure I'm comfortable with mixing households if it's not advised or allowed

Your true colours are showing here. You're happy to try and find any reason to keep your DH all to yourself and don't want your perfect family Christmas to be inconvenienced by the presence of his other child.

Children are allowed to see their parents. The fact you, your DH and his ex can't sort this out means that there's having to be grandparent involvement.

Give it a few years and you'll probably find that his daughter conveniently gets out your life and his relationship ends up soured if he decides that his new wife throwing a strop is more important than a child who was around before you were on the scene.

You dc are old enough to understand dsd is their sister, just who has a different Mummy, but definitely part of their family. If all the adults involved accept this too - and most importantly, your DH has to believe that all his children are part of the same family.

He does not have 2 families, he has one family with children with 2 mothers. They are equally his children, and they are each others siblings. They should be encouraged to see each other as siblings.

That wont happen if dsd doesn't come to your house and spent time with her siblings.

Your DH is being unfair on all the children involved by agreeing to keep his dcs apart.

Dsd comes to your dhs house this Christmas. She spends the day with her family. You can invite PIL to your house too. (Yes, that goes over the rule of 6, but Boris has as good as said the rule will be suspended on Christmas day).

The solution here seems to be to get your mamma on and manage to have your partners other child with you all on Christmas. Poor thing to be so excluded!

*He does not have 2 families, he has one family with children with 2 mothers. They are equally his children, and they are each others siblings. They should be encouraged to see each other as siblings.

That wont happen if dsd doesn't come to your house and spent time with her siblings.

Your DH is being unfair on all the children involved by agreeing to keep his dcs apart.

Dsd comes to your dhs house this Christmas. She spends the day with her family. You can invite PIL to your house too. (Yes, that goes over the rule of 6, but Boris has as good as said the rule will be suspended on Christmas day).*

Absolutely agree with this. To be fair I think a lot of posters are being pretty unfair to you now and are finding ways to paint you as a bad person. The obvious truth is that this arrangement is ridiculous and suits nobody other than your DSD's mum having control. It is rubbish for you and your children that you are having to accept alternate Christmas' with your husband/dad when he should be spending it with all his kids at once, and it is also obviously not in your DSD's best interests to not have an encouraged relationship with her half siblings. You are not wrong to be unhappy about the situation and that is what needs to be resolved, your husband needs to work to integrate his daughter into his family.

@Lolasmiles you clearly take everything to mean what you want it to. You very much remind me of the ex causing all the problems in my situation. And yet another comment insinuating you believe his eldest child should take priority, despite saying all children are equal?
In a perfect world DSD would just come to us for Christmas, but I don't really want all hell breaking lose on Christmas. She won't allow if it is asked or told before hand, and if DH was to just bring her here she would obviously find out and that will no doubt cause her to come round guns blazing starting WW3 in front of the kids again! How is that any good for anyone?
There is nothing I can do but get on with it, so it seems, and hopefully in a few years, when she is old enough to make up her own mind she can come over and see us as she wishes without her mother's permission.
And just for the record it's DSD mother keeping the children apart, she wants nothing to do with us, she has no consideration for the other children involved in the situation, she has run my DH down and said he should not have had anymore children when he already had DSD....although she has other children by other father's and that's ok!
In the past I have been the peacemaker and had DSD round Xmas eve with other children and her partner at the time and mother to make peace and allow DSD to have all her siblings together, which she had never had....it lasted all of a couple of months before the next drama unfolded, it has been one thing after another, I've lost count of the endless things she has taken issue with

Thank you @aSofaNearYou
You seem to be the only person that gets my point! I am not the one excluding DSD it's her mother doing that! And it is also her mother that sees us as two separate families, DSD is part of our family when she is here or not but obviously she is not here and we are still a family and DSD mother hates that! However it is the situation she has created, which leaves me so baffled with her motives. Her own daughters mental health has suffered and still she will keep going to keep us excluded, and threaten no contact if anyone goes against her wishes. This is part of the reason I am not on good terms with PIL, they have, as DSD mother has requested, upheld the request that I not be around her DD. They could have stood up to her and said no, but at the threat of not seeing their DGD they went along with what she wanted and now hardly ever see their other grandchildren, which as you can imagine is very hurtful. It's been a painful few years but I am still standing and have to carry on, just wish there was something I could do, but I am powerless. I tried in the past to keep up a relationship with DSD but my texts were deleted and whenever I spoke on the phone a shouting match would follow or abusive texts and I even wrote letters which were found out about and DSD mother put a stop to that

So its October, you start now.

Your dh is equally dsd's parent to her mum. If what he believes is best for her is to have a relationship with her siblings (and if he doesn't, he can explain to you why he doesn't see that as in her best interests), it starts now.

She comes to your house, not PILs now. He will have to have the fight he should have had when you were first pregnant.

ExW might not like that your dcs exist, but how is it helping DSD to go along with the pretence they don't?

She visits now. Builds up time at your house. Perhaps your DH brings her to your house to stay the weekend, but takes her out on her own for part of the day still. Or takes her with your oldest dc to visit PILs.

Stop putting fear of ExW kicking off above what's best for all the children. This arrangement is bad for DSD, she has siblings she's kept away from. She's not welcome in her dad's house. Her dad's new wife doesn't see her. How is that going to feel? It won't be her mum she blames as an adult.

Start now. Dsd goes to stay at her dads house in his contact time. That's normal.

Honestly I understand that its a nightmare situation (which is totally of your husbands making but that's not your fault), but your fixation on him being with you on Christmas day when you KNOW that means he won't see his daughter, who he has an alternative year arrangement with his ex for is really depressing. It's all about what you want (your kids wouldn't give a shit if you 'did Christmas' on xmas eve instead, as anyone who had parents who worked shifts can tell you) with no thought to the child involved.

The point about Covid is really low, its been established since lockdown began that children from separated parents can move between households, it would be truly disgusting to use that as an excuse for your husband to not see his daughter.

If this obsession is just your dissatisfaction with the current situation manifesting then fine, but you need to address it without impacting on the poor child who only sees her dad 4 days in a month. Don't fuck up her Christmas just to make a point having had it your way last year.

I've only read your posts.

You're in an impossible situation and he probably feels like he is. You need to discuss with him that you and your kids are not his second class family that he can put the feelings of aside to try and make the other child happy. There must be a way through this. Every other Christmas with you seems the least offensive. If he is with her from Xmas eve to Boxing Day, why can't he bring her home?

Your DH seems to be in an awful position, with 2 women pressuring him to choose between his own kids. I dont agree that its unfair to you that he sees DD on Xmas. He would see her one year and your kids the next, so all kids get equal xmas with dad, but the situation is honestly ridiculous. You have basically allowed his Ex to bully you and push you into this situation where all kids are missing out on a sibling and DD is missing out on having a home at her dads. Your DH should have stood his ground back then. And yes I know exactly what you mean with exes that dont follow court orders manipulating their children to repeat false allegations, because I am living it and its atrocious what some get away with and court is in no way magical wand, BUT, the court would have at least put a stop to this nonsense re DH having to see DD at grandparents house and all kids missing out on their siblings. That is not in any of the childrens best interest. When DD is older you guys can blame ex all you want but she will just ask why you didnt fight back and stood up for her.

Like PP said, you can celebrate Xmas another day. Your kids are 3 & 5, they dont even know what bloody date it is! In most of Europe Xmas presents, dinner etc is celebrated on 24th . Your kids will not be traumatised by this, all they care about is whole family together and they get presents. They wont know the difference. However, is that really how you want your kids growing up, without even knowing their sister ? When theyre older are you and DH just gonna vilify Ex? This isnt about you its about the kids. Personally, I would try to mend this broken and sad situation. The past is the past and that cannot be changed, but, the present and future can be. If you guys cannot/will not go to court then the next step is at least introducing the children. The kids should go with DH to meet their sister. Obviously build it up slowly and gradually at kids pace. And yes kids will be confused at first but they will be fine and prob just happy to have another sibling to play with. And DD will benefit from being connected to more of paternal family too. Eventually they could go with DH every time he goes to see DD and they could actually have a loving sibling relationship. And you get a weekend to yourself to relax!

Over time as DD is used to her siblings and she is older she will prob be more inclined to want to see you too. Slowly you might be able to mend that relationship too. Doesnt matter if it takes 3 years at least you guys will be communicating and likely feel less anger, resentment etc. DD is now 12 and will have more of a voice against her mother and wont be brainwashed so easily. And quite frankly, who she sees when she is with her dad is not her mothers business as long as there is no safeguarding concerns. She might not even tell her mum if she knows she will kick off. Not saying it should be kept a secret, just saying kids are smarter than you think

@Zuzu5 OP should not be expected to go every other weekend without her children to accommodate her husband's exes unfounded demand that she not have anything to do with her daughter.

[quote aSofaNearYou]@Zuzu5 OP should not be expected to go every other weekend without her children to accommodate her husband's exes unfounded demand that she not have anything to do with her daughter. [/quote]
Thats all you got from my post? I didnt say OP should be expected to do that. It was a suggestion so at least the kids can have a relationship. OP lives with her children full time. Of course she will miss them but them having quality time with their sibling every alternating weekend is beneficial for her kids (and gives OP time for herself). Her husband only sees DD 4 days a month and she cant spend few hours away from her kids every 2 weeks, for her kids sake? Not like it has to be the entire weekend every time. Some weekends it must just be 2 hours, trip to the park or go for lunch, other times sleep over etc. and even then it would have to build up gradually, not starting tomorrow. Obviously the most sensible would be to start bringing DD to her fathers house straight away and stand up to ex, I still dont understand how 1 woman is controlling all of OPs family, PIL and god knows who else. This woman must be incredibly powerful or more likely none of the adults has balls to stand up to her and the kids are suffering the consequences . Absurd

OP this thread is in no way attacking you for being a stepmom, like PP Im also a stepmom, but you're playing martyr. You keep saying how there is no fix and no way to change things its "too late" when PP have given you several suggestions and in reality you just dont want to do them. FINE if thats the case but then just admit it, you've had enough and cant be involved more. Second you continue to twist peoples words about only DD should be prioritised and poor op and your children no one cares about you when thats not what is being said . The only victims here are the 3 kids.

You've had several suggestions, up to you what you do with that.

Thats all you got from my post? I didnt say OP should be expected to do that. It was a suggestion so at least the kids can have a relationship. OP lives with her children full time. Of course she will miss them but them having quality time with their sibling every alternating weekend is beneficial for her kids (and gives OP time for herself). Her husband only sees DD 4 days a month and she cant spend few hours away from her kids every 2 weeks, for her kids sake?

It's only really a case of OP "gets" time to herself if she wants regular time off from her kids, and not only that but time off whilst establishing a deeply unhealthy dynamic her kids will then be exposed to. "No darlings, your beloved mother isn't allowed to come because daddy's ex wife deems her unworthy, and while we're at it don't question why your grandparents we are visiting are so much closer to the sister you barely know that despises your mum." Of course a couple of hours would be better than the whole of EOW but she shouldn't have to send her kids into that situation at all.

One thing I absolutely would not allow ridiculous, batshit demands from my partner's ex to impact is my time and relationship with my own kids. The line has to be drawn somewhere. The DSD's motherly right to dictate that her daughter not have relationship with her dad's wife during his contact time does not overrule OPs right to spend her weekends with her children in her own home. She doesn't owe her husband that because he spends more time away from his other daughter, either, he misses out on time with her because of his own life choices. OP isn't separated, she isn't obliged to give away "contact time" when there's no good reason for it.

Ok so I realise I was maybe being selfish wanting DH with us for Xmas, but I only ever meant part of it. I wouldn't want him to not see DSD, that was never the point. It's turning into a real issue now as PIL not happy to have DH DSD over night only for dinner. (Kinda what I wanted in the first place I know...but) Obviously ex has kicked off....why dinner but not the night, what's the difference. She actually has a point for once, but PIL are very paranoid about the virus and it's not for her or DH to make them do what they aren't comfortable with. Anyway ex obviously has plans of Xmas with no kids as others are going to respective father's/grandparents. Have told DH to stand up to her and say she should be allowed here, but WW3 has resumed! She expects me to leave my own home for him to have DSD here, but has backed down about her seeing siblings as DSD wants to see them. Obviously DH said no to that, as I will be here, and now she says DH isn't allowed to have her at all! Yet again saying he's a crap dad etc and saying DSD doesn't want to see him either etc etc
So small progress but not a winning situation, as no way will I be leaving my kids on Christmas. I most certainly would not be leaving my kids at weekends either, and removing myself from my own home to allow DSD to come over. Ex has to accept I exist, and if she was to allow relationship between kids, she has to accept I am the mother to her daughter's siblings who are still very young. I want to propose a plan for contact between the children but it needs to be slow and steady. Not sure letter writing is going to work as DD isn't very good at writing and don't want to make it stressful. I could write for her but then is ex going to kick off because I was involved in writing .... Probably, she's so petty. The thought of this re-introduction makes me very nervous, but it has to start somewhere. However if I'm never allowed to be part of the picture should I bother? Its not right for my kids to be taken from me to see her, and I don't want ex getting her way all the time, she's ruled too much of our lives already. Equally current situation is not right either. I'm hoping if DSD wants to see us all, including me, as DH has told me, then eventually her mother will give in to her? But what if that's another 3 years down the line?! Anyone had experience of introducing, or re-introducing siblings? How did it go? Any dos or don'ts?

Celebrate with your shared kids on 1 day . And he can celebrate with his original, first born on the other day .

Stop making this all about you shared kids. He had got more then your shared kids.
It is true that his ex is being a fecking nightmare. But thats just what it is. And you have to deal with it

A 3 year old spent hours and hours crying on Christmas w e because her dad wasn't there?

I think you need to look closer to home and address the problems with your own children TBH!

You married a msn with a child he's got commitments to all his children.

How comes yours will be upset and his first child won't miss out?

@Cloudsandrainbows

Ok so I realise I was maybe being selfish wanting DH with us for Xmas, but I only ever meant part of it. I wouldn't want him to not see DSD, that was never the point. It's turning into a real issue now as PIL not happy to have DH DSD over night only for dinner. (Kinda what I wanted in the first place I know...but) Obviously ex has kicked off....why dinner but not the night, what's the difference. She actually has a point for once, but PIL are very paranoid about the virus and it's not for her or DH to make them do what they aren't comfortable with. Anyway ex obviously has plans of Xmas with no kids as others are going to respective father's/grandparents. Have told DH to stand up to her and say she should be allowed here, but WW3 has resumed! She expects me to leave my own home for him to have DSD here, but has backed down about her seeing siblings as DSD wants to see them. Obviously DH said no to that, as I will be here, and now she says DH isn't allowed to have her at all! Yet again saying he's a crap dad etc and saying DSD doesn't want to see him either etc etc So small progress but not a winning situation, as no way will I be leaving my kids on Christmas. I most certainly would not be leaving my kids at weekends either, and removing myself from my own home to allow DSD to come over. Ex has to accept I exist, and if she was to allow relationship between kids, she has to accept I am the mother to her daughter's siblings who are still very young. I want to propose a plan for contact between the children but it needs to be slow and steady. Not sure letter writing is going to work as DD isn't very good at writing and don't want to make it stressful. I could write for her but then is ex going to kick off because I was involved in writing .... Probably, she's so petty. The thought of this re-introduction makes me very nervous, but it has to start somewhere. However if I'm never allowed to be part of the picture should I bother? Its not right for my kids to be taken from me to see her, and I don't want ex getting her way all the time, she's ruled too much of our lives already. Equally current situation is not right either. I'm hoping if DSD wants to see us all, including me, as DH has told me, then eventually her mother will give in to her? But what if that's another 3 years down the line?! Anyone had experience of introducing, or re-introducing siblings? How did it go? Any dos or don'ts?

I would, in your shoes, start the introductions between the children. I'm not saying leave your home for a weekend, not at all, but there is absolutely no harm in your DH having the three children together for an hour or two without you.

The more a part of your home your DSD is, the more she'll want to to be there, and the more her mother will be under pressure to allow it.

Its not right for my kids to be taken from me to see her

You need to separate your DSD from her mother to an extent. The situation with her mother and your DH is seperate to introducing the children and a balance needs to be found between pushing her Mum and making small steps (especially if your DH is still not willing to go to court)

It should be kept light and airy. Keep the kids busy - harder at the moment I know with restrictions - your DH could take your DSD and your eldest to the park, or all three children to the zoo. Something that isn't just a lot of focus on being sat around talking and 'getting to know each other'.

The ex has backed down on your DSD meeting your children. That shows there is movement in her position. I would put money on that being because your DSD is getting older and more vocal in her wishes.

What is your DH suggesting for Christmas? What about a compromise of Christmas dinner at the GP's and staying over in a Premier Inn (They are surprisingly cheap on Christmas normally as they are quiet)? Then back to Mum on Boxing Day. Then DH can be back home with you and the younger kids?

Your other option is for your DH to bring your DSD to your house after dinner, but that is a lot to deal with in one day - the excitement of Christmas, meeting her siblings and knowing her mother is likely to kick off the next day.

You sound like an absolute dick.

"I an adult cannot possibly repair my relationship with a child. So that our children can have a normal family Christmas. In fact I want my childrens sibling to be fatherless every Christmas. That would suit me just fab! "

Grow the fuck up.