To not put DSs first choice secondary at number one, but not tell him?

[shinysealioninahat]

We have two secondary options. Both good schools, academically pretty similar etc. School 1 is slightly further and we may not get in through distance.
DS's prefers school 1 as his best friend will be going there. He accepts he may not get into it.
I prefer school 2, as I think it will suit his needs better. Several of his friends will be going there.

I'm so tempted to put school 2 first, then school 1, and when the offers come out, just tell him school 1 didn't have a place due to catchment. He'd not question that.

Would that be really awful of me, for lying to him, and actively not giving him the option of going to the same school as his best friend?

Thank you. It's interesting to hear how it works in the rest of the UK.

Totally second @RedskyAtnight. At secondary they will be split across tutor groups and no account will be taken of existing friendships. There are a couple in DD's year who have been friends forever and now split up who are of course gutted. With my own DD, her best friend was always going to a different school, but we would never be in catchment. They are still friends out of school. And as a cautionary tale, I heard of someone whose child refused to put down their nearest, and perfectly good, school for some silly reason, and ended up at a school miles away. Unless the schools are awful, I would really put them down in distance order.

i would put your preference in as 1 and his as 2.

Our LEA asks you to list 3 schools in your application.

While i was happy to discuss preferences with my DD, as the adult/parent, i have a better understanding of what each school had to offer, so i took her thoughts into consideration, then did what i thought best.

We did it via what lessons they offer.. what languages and sports, one didnt offer german or swimming, both of which she enjoys, so that went 3rd. The other two were my preference (location) and hers (better sports facilities)
i put hers first, mine second, as we live in an area with no catchment secondary, and i knew getting 1st was extremely unlikely.. we got offered 2nd.

@LasagneLady

Totally second *@RedskyAtnight*. At secondary they will be split across tutor groups and no account will be taken of existing friendships. There are a couple in DD's year who have been friends forever and now split up who are of course gutted. With my own DD, her best friend was always going to a different school, but we would never be in catchment. They are still friends out of school. And as a cautionary tale, I heard of someone whose child refused to put down their nearest, and perfectly good, school for some silly reason, and ended up at a school miles away. Unless the schools are awful, I would really put them down in distance order.

You're right that you should generally always include your nearest school(s), but you should put them in your preference order. The only reason you should put them in distance order is if that is your genuine order or preference.

@CeeceeBloomingdale

I wouldn't lie, but I might try and persuade him that #2 should be the #1 choice so he is involved in making the choice.

I think the problem (and explanation to him) is that if he doesn't get school 1 he's unlikely to then get school 2. Feedback from friends is that if you don't get school 1, you then get bottom of your list/one you didn't select.

@Bakeachocolatecaketoday As explained many times, that it incorrect in England. All LEAs have to use the equal preference system, so putting a school second or lower doesn't disadvantage you.

EggsFried do you feel like you are banging your head off a wall? You're very patient!

@caughtalightsneeze

EggsFried do you feel like you are banging your head off a wall? You're very patient!

Haha thank you! I hope I'm not annoying people by posting the same thing- I just find it really hard to let it go when someone says that you have to put a school first to stand a chance as it's a myth that is so widely believed and must impact on so many kids' school places. I am now in my late 20s and it was the first year of the equal preference system in my area when I was applying to secondary school (made law across England later than that) so that's how long it's been in place in some areas!

@caughtalightsneeze

Are the schools (rather than the LEA) allowed to make it one of their entrance criteria that you get preference if you put it first? That's what happens where I live but we don't have LEAs in the same way as England.

No. Some schools are allowed to set their own admissions criteria but they have to do it within a set of legal regulations and publish their criteria online. It’s these that prohibit first preference first.

Whilst some schools do bend or break the rules in small ways, this would be such a huge breach and have such a knock on effect in every school in the area it’s unlikely to pass by unnoticed.

@Bakeachocolatecaketoday that is anecdotal and incorrect, as lots of posters have explained very eloquently!

Actually, it must be nearly time for the annual school admissions myth busting thread.

@EggsFried @shinysealioninahat

...It's when I really wish for an edit button - I wasn't trying to say that was what happened - Just (badly) trying to say this is a "half-lie" I would tell your DS...

So I wouldn't just change the order but would slightly exaggerate the problem / give a bit of misinformation in order to get him to reverse the order.

So I wouldn't just change the order but would slightly exaggerate the problem / give a bit of misinformation in order to get him to reverse the order.

Or you could just tell him the truth ...? And what happens when his friends put the schools in the opposite order and still get their second choices (and believe me, they do compare notes)?

I definitely wouldn't lie to him. You've listened to his input, you don't agree with him and the final decision is yours to make.
My mum made a similar decision, except i didn't know anyone at the school she sent me to. It was the better school by far but I wanted to go to the local comp with my friends. As hard as it was for me for a while, I can see she made the right decision.

I wouldn’t lie but I wouldn’t also just let my child choose as because at 11 they will just go for the school their friends goes to.

It's a trictly one, I let DS1 have final say re secondary choices rather than going with the school that was most suitable (he is dyslexic and my gut feeling was that the second choice would work best) for us it didn't work out very well and we ended up moving him into private in year 8, can't really say for sure that it wouldn't have happened anyway, but the structure of the two schools were very different and the one he went to streamed in all subjectd from the start, so DS got put in lower sets for most subjects, the other school didn't stream till much later.
It actually had a really negative effect on DS, which he now says it messed with his head... But he's survived and is now 23 and at university (late bloomers).

He has to make the case using reasons other than his friend- why is this friend not trying hard to get into school 1 to be with your DS?

If the dynamic is a little uneven, and friend won't have given a thought to where DS goes when deciding, then DS be going further from local friends to a less good fit, to likely be dropped like a hot potato.

Reassure him he'll still see his friend at football, scouts etc. and see if he can see the benefits in school 1.

My great grandmother did similar to my gran. My grandmother passed the 11+ and her mother declined the high school place without her knowledge/permission and my gran ended up working in a shop at the age of 14. Her life would have been very different had she been allowed to take up her high school place.

Some how this came to light about 60 years after the event after great grandmother died, and it very much did poison my grans memory of her mother.

I don’t have any intention of letting my children pick their own secondary schools. I begged my mum to let me go with my friends which she did and twelve months later I was begging to be moved to the school she had suggested. It’s not an appropriate decision for a 10 year old.

We were in a similar position, DS wanted School A, we wanted School B, as you, we were just out of catchment for school A but fairly/very sure we would get into school B. I did put his choice as no 1 eg. school A and in the end we got school B. I am sure my DS still doesn't believe that we did put his first choice first as one of his friends who live very similar distance got in on waiting list. No help I guess but if you are fairly sure you won't get into the school he wants I would put that first for his sake

Definitely talk to him about it. When I was going into high school there wasn't a question of where I would go, but certainly the house and form I would be put into. I ended up in the same house (but not the same form) as my best friend - yet by Christmas of y7 I had a whole set of new friends, and barely spoke to this girl anyway.

All I mean is that to choose a school based on where one friend is going - when it's further away - seems a bit silly. Chances are your son will regret the decision when the friendship moves on, as they so often do, and he has to travel further.

If the friendship is strong enough to stand the test of time, it will do regardless of attending the same school or not - plus he has lots of other friends in the more local school, as you mentioned.

When you're 10/11 it seems like the most important thing in the world to stay with your best friend, but us adults know it's not, and so will he given time. Think carefully why you don't want him to go to his choice of school, explain those thoughts with him, and hopefully he will come to a decision on his own.

I mean my mum never discussed it with me - she just put down the schools she wanted. I didn't know parents asked their kids usually

I’ve only read your posts so far OP, but I think you should choose for him and don’t tell him. You’re the parent and guardian and entrusted to make the best choice on his behalf. You have the experience and knowledge to make this decision as an adult, he does not.

I think my decision may be swayed because my parents chose a school purely on the basis that my siblings went there, and not the outstanding girls’ only school I wanted to go to. It sounds like you have DS’s best interests at heart.

I'd put down your preference. For all you know the best friends mum might do the same thing.

Aged 10 I would have wanted to follow a friend too. But that's not a good reason in terms of daily travel etc.

I would be honest with him though. At least he can then tell his bestie the plan. Maybe they will change their mind too.