Page 3 | To not put DSs first choice secondary at number one, but not tell him?

shinysealioninahat · 2020-09-23T21:24:57+00:00

We have two secondary options. Both good schools, academically pretty similar etc. School 1 is slightly further and we may not get in through distance. DS's prefers school 1 as his best friend will be going there. He accepts he may not get into it. I prefer school 2, as I think it will suit his needs better. Several of his friends will be going there. I'm so tempted to put school 2 first, then school 1, and when the offers come out, just tell him school 1 didn't have a place due to catchment. He'd not question that. Would that be really awful of me, for lying to him, and actively not giving him the option of going to the same school as his best friend?

GetThatHelmetOn · 23/09/2020 23:51

I did, and he knew and for years he told me off for lying to him. I don’t regret it though, the school he wanted was NOT the right school for him and at 11 he only cared about the shiny stuff that was not relevant to the quality of the teaching or his particular educational needs.

I did however gave him free range to choose his sixth form as by then he was mature enough to make a well informed decision without my input.

GetThatHelmetOn · 23/09/2020 23:54

... oh, and he fell out with the friend he wanted to join at that school before they ended primary school so all this thing about continuing with their friends is all relative, they would be split by their particular interests and preferred subjects and ability as soon as they go into secondary school.

ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords · 23/09/2020 23:56

Yes, you may do. Admissions authorities try to accommodate as many first choices as possible. Therefore if your son doesn't get into school 1 on the basis of distance, he won't automatically get his second choice if all the available spaces in school 2 have been taken by families who put it down as their first choice. They're not going to bump another child out of their first choice place for which they are eligible just because your child hasn't got his first choice.

If a hundred people put a school as first choice and I put it as second, they will only get a place ahead of me if they rank above me on entry criteria e.g LAC, EHCP, distance. Putting it as first choice has no bearing on eligibility.

Italiangreyhound · 24/09/2020 00:01

I'd let your son choose his first choice for secondary school. If he doesn't get in, you get your wish and he goes to school 2. And you don't need to lie.

If he does get in and things go wrong, then you can move him to the other school.

ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords · 24/09/2020 00:05

@Lifeisabeach09

So she started this September? If so, the bit about not telling her because of lockdown doesn't make sense because the application would have been done last year - months before any of us knew about Covid.

Always one:) She didn't question the application submission, she questioned the verdict, which came out in March.

I did not tell her which school I put first initially as it would have caused her anxiety during an already unusual times (lockdown).

Sorry, this suggests you didn't tell her the order because of lockdown.

What you mean is that you didn't tell her when you put the application in, and when she wondered why she didn't get her first choice school you didn't explain that you had not put it first.

GetThatHelmetOn · 24/09/2020 00:05

It does at least in some cases. I was told by two schools and a LEA officer that I would only get a chance for a very popular top school if I put it as my first choice, we were not close enough to trump other second choice applications from people nearer to the school unless we choose it as first option.

PatriciaPerch · 24/09/2020 00:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Halli2020 · 24/09/2020 00:08

I'd say select school 2 and tell him this. By the time he's doing his gcses and absolutely knackered he'll thank you for not having to do the commute!

SoulofanAggron · 24/09/2020 00:09

As someone whose parents chose to put me in a random school because it was 'better,' I definitely would say go for the one where your son wants to go and has a good frriend, especially as you say it's a good school anyway.

PatriciaPerch · 24/09/2020 00:09

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

seayork2020 · 24/09/2020 00:12

I went with DS's preferred school as I figured he has to be the one to go their daily but if I didn't there is no way I would lie have lied to him, apart from it being wrong to me I would not accept him lying to me so I would not do the same to him just because I am a mum and can lie if I want too

ArtieFufkinPolymerRecords · 24/09/2020 00:13

@GetThatHelmetOn

It does at least in some cases. I was told by two schools and a LEA officer that I would only get a chance for a very popular top school if I put it as my first choice, we were not close enough to trump other second choice applications from people nearer to the school unless we choose it as first option.

Schools will often say that you need to put them as first choice, but it is not true.You can't trump applications from other people unless you are higher up the admissions criteria.

Pobblebonk · 24/09/2020 00:36

@Italiangreyhound

I'd let your son choose his first choice for secondary school. If he doesn't get in, you get your wish and he goes to school 2. And you don't need to lie.

If he does get in and things go wrong, then you can move him to the other school.

But she doesn't automatically get school 2 if she puts it as second choice, nor will there necessarily be a vacancy in school 2 if she wants to move him later.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 24/09/2020 00:38

@GetThatHelmetOn

It does at least in some cases. I was told by two schools and a LEA officer that I would only get a chance for a very popular top school if I put it as my first choice, we were not close enough to trump other second choice applications from people nearer to the school unless we choose it as first option.

Every LA in England has been operating on an equal preference for over a decade now. Doing anything else would would be in breach of the Admissions code.

Either you were lied to by the schools and the LEA officer, or they were mistaken or you've misunderstood something.

There would be absolute carnage in terms of appeals/LGO/schools adjudicator if any LA actually was using a 1st preference 1st system.

GetThatHelmetOn · 24/09/2020 00:39

What about the LEA officer? He was the one who brought it up? Then I asked the schools and they told me the same. Both schools I wanted were defined as outstanding in Ofsted but the nearest to us was not bad but was far from being as good so there were a huge amount of people in the catchment of the not so good school trying to get a place in the other 2.

Either way, he got the place.

Original poster

shinysealioninahat · 24/09/2020 00:48

@Pobblebonk he would get a place at school 2 if he meets the criteria. It being placed second on the list has no bearing on that whatsoever, if DS doesn't get into his first choice.

OP posts:

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 24/09/2020 01:01

@GetThatHelmetOn

What about the LEA officer? He was the one who brought it up? Then I asked the schools and they told me the same. Both schools I wanted were defined as outstanding in Ofsted but the nearest to us was not bad but was far from being as good so there were a huge amount of people in the catchment of the not so good school trying to get a place in the other 2.

Either way, he got the place.

I think it might occasionally be used as a short hand for make sure you put your genuine 1st choice 1st. To prevent the issue where people sometimes don't put a popular school 1st because they don't think they'll get in and then end up not getting a place they'd have got if they put it 1st because they were removed from the list when they were given the school they did put at the top of the list.

The order you put the schools in only gets looked at if you end up high enough up the list of applicants to be offered a place at more than one school.

Italiangreyhound · 24/09/2020 01:43

"But she doesn't automatically get school 2 if she puts it as second choice, nor will there necessarily be a vacancy in school 2 if she wants to move him later."

True but what other choice dies she have?
Force him to put his second choice first?
Put his second choice first and lie about it?

Personally, I don't like either of those options.

Feelingconfused2020 · 24/09/2020 02:17

If you feel very strongly then obviously you can override his wishes, but I wouldn't lie. How would you feel when he finds out he didn't get into the school he wants and is broken hearted. How would you feel between now and march if his and his best friend are planning what they'll do together at school all the while you know it's never gonna happen.

Personally if school 1 is as good as school 2 and there's a suitable means of transport then I would put his wishes first but if you decide not to then explain that to him. Don't lie.

TitsOutForHarambe · 24/09/2020 03:03

You are the parent so I think it's fine to make the final call on which schools to put in which place, so if that's the order you think would be best for him then do it. I see no issue there.

I would not, however, lie to him about it. What's the point? If he asks what order you are putting them in then just tell him the truth. It seems silly and overdramatic to lie over it.

Inkpaperstars · 24/09/2020 03:13

It's so hard to explain to a 10 year old that friendships can change even when it doesn't seem like they will. I'd ask him to think about which school he'd prefer if his best friend didn't come into the decision, just to try and see more pros and cons.

londonscalling · 24/09/2020 03:14

Seriously, how does a boy of ten know which school is best and most suitable for him? It's your choice as a parent. However, don't lie to him but just tell him which school you will be applying for!

user1481840227 · 24/09/2020 03:18

What is it about school 2 that suits his needs better?

Jenny70 · 24/09/2020 03:30

Is there a club or hobby that your son does with friend choosing school 1? If they know they will still catch up at X activity, plus weekends/online, that might reassure them that the friendship will continue if they go to different schools.

We also made choices that our children wouldn't have chosen, but they agree now 100% it was the right thing to do. We listened to their views, put our thoughts forward, but said ultimately we were the adults and we would be making the final decision.

But what soften the blow was the commitment to seeing "old" friends through clubs and sports, they still play sport with the old school friends over new friends. great to have different circles of friends.

Nancydrawn · 24/09/2020 04:15

I would make it very clear to him that either way, you plan on supporting his relationship with his best friendthat you will make sure they get to see each other out of school, that you will drive him/arrange transportation so that he can hang out with him, that his friend is welcome over, etc. In other words, that while it will mean they will be in different schools (and that very likely they will drift apartdon't need to tell him this, I suppose), you will help him maintain his friendship outside of school hours.