To not put DSs first choice secondary at number one, but not tell him?

[shinysealioninahat]

We have two secondary options. Both good schools, academically pretty similar etc. School 1 is slightly further and we may not get in through distance.
DS's prefers school 1 as his best friend will be going there. He accepts he may not get into it.
I prefer school 2, as I think it will suit his needs better. Several of his friends will be going there.

I'm so tempted to put school 2 first, then school 1, and when the offers come out, just tell him school 1 didn't have a place due to catchment. He'd not question that.

Would that be really awful of me, for lying to him, and actively not giving him the option of going to the same school as his best friend?

Is his best friend the only friend going to school 1?

I wouldn't let a 10yo choose their secondary based on one friend. Friendships can change a lot going to secondary. If most of his friends are going to school 2 and it's the better school for him then I'd be putting that first on the form (and telling him so).

My DD and I had a difference of opinion over this issue. She wanted school A because her best' friends were going, I wanted school B because its academics were better. She knew several children going to school B but they were not friends, as such. I put school B first and school A second. I wasn't worried about her making friends-she can make friends within 5 minutes of meeting other children.
I listened to her input but, ultimately, it was my decision. I did not tell her which school I put first initially as it would have caused her anxiety during an already unusual times (lockdown).
Needless to say, she has three new best friends and is on an academic pathway that suits us both. She is also in daily contact with her old friends (mobiles!) and they can meet anytime they wish.

I haven't even asked my 10 year old what school they want to go to I think that kind of thing is an adult decision.

@PatriciaPerch in England, you don't reduce your chances of getting into a school br putting it number 2 on the list, if you don't get onto choice 1.

But to him, going to school with his best friend trumps everything right now, as it probably should when you're 10

Which is why, as the parent, you make the final decision.

Yes I would do it op.

Ultimately I think it’s the parent’s choice which seems quite different to lots of previous posts. You can’t expect a ten year old to be able to make a considered choice about something so important...the fact that he’s openly choosing the school only because his friend is going there is enough evidence of that. Friends change and blindly wanting to follow them about, without considering the other pros or cons of x school is a sign of immaturity imo and a sign that choice shouldn’t be allowed to be made. At ten you let them learn from their mistakes by choosing something disappointing on a menu on their own and not by making a choice that will affect the next 5-7 years of their life.

In your shoes I would have (I did, 2 years ago) made it clear from the start that school choice rested with the parents. However it sounds like you’ve already set the bar in that it’s ‘his choice’ and are now realising giving a ten year old free choice in this is less than wise.

So fix it before it’s too late to. Apply for the school you, as a mature adult and parent, feels would be best for him.

If you can sit him down and tell him this without him kicking off or being resentful, do so. If not then don’t tell him. Only you know how he’d react.

Of my two older dc I have, I suspect, one of each. One who would be disappointed but accepting and would move on and embrace what our choice of school threw at him. Another who would strop and and sulk for weeks at not getting his way and would have a tendency to blame anything that went wrong at the school on us with the knowledge.

I choose my battles wisely and with dc2 it would be easier all around (for us AND him) to not know his choice wasn’t the school actually applied for. I wouldn’t hesitate.

@Allywill put it well.

If you want to overrule his opinion that’s fine - you are the parent. But you have to be honest and let him know that’s what you are doing! Hiding behind lies is incredibly weak parenting and absolutely no foundation for your ongoing relationship with your son.

Why lie? You are the parent here. This is not his decision. I would talk to him about how he and his friend can still hang out even though they are at different schools.

Where would he end up if school 1 didn't offer a place.? If it's school 3 or 4 which, maybe, he wouldn't be happy with, you could sell school 2 as the one he is most likely to be accepted in as his first choice but, school 1, not being as close, he is less likely to get in and if he doesn't school 2 could be oversubscribed so he'd end up at 3 or 4.

Are his friends into there respective schools through sibling links? If not, then there is no guarantee that his friend would get a place a school 1.

Sorry, that seems like a bit of a moithful but, hopefully, you get the gist.

Lying is not good, I think you would regret it and the guilt would build up over time esp if ds is unhappy there

I'm in America so it's a bit different, but similar situation.
I was a few years older then your son, because of how our education system is set up. I was 13 and my father wanted me to go to one High School (start at age 14) but I wanted to go to a different one. None of my friends were going to the one my father wanted me to go to. In the end he let me decide. While my experience was not bad at my school, looking back as an adult I see that I would have had better opportunities if I went to the one my father chose. I dont think you should lie to your son, but if you really believe your choice is better I think you should explain that to him and make the choice for him. He's 10 he cant see the big picture at that age.

No I wouldn't lie if you don't have the courage of your convictions to discuss it with ds then you should let him choose IMO.

Hi OP my school had a zoom meeting with the headteacher today to discuss secondary schools. The headteacher’s view was to not send your child to a school ‘just’ because their friends are going there - to take our children’s view into consideration but the parent/carer should make the final decision, the headteacher actually addressed her conversion to the children who were watching on zoom saying when it came to decisions as important as this one your parents/carers will make the decision. There will be highs and lows in all schools whether it’s the best school in the area or not (don’t think there won’t be problems in the best schools) - with the right work ethic a child can flourish in the worst school - so please parents and carers don’t worry too much if you don’t get the school of your choice - schools do their bit but as parents and carers we should be the driving force guiding our children along to reach their goals and even more importantly (to me) a happy and peaceful life.

I listened to her input but, ultimately, it was my decision. I did not tell her which school I put first initially as it would have caused her anxiety during an already unusual times (lockdown).
Needless to say, she has three new best friends and is on an academic pathway that suits us both. She is also in daily contact with her old friends (mobiles!) and they can meet anytime they wish.

So she started this September? If so, the bit about not telling her because of lockdown doesn't make sense because the application would have been done last year - months before any of us knew about Covid.

I think the more sensible argument is that, if he puts school 1 down and doesn't get in, there is a distinct danger that he may not get into school 2 if it is full, and may end up in whatever school has a vacancy which may be some distance away and where he may not know anyone.

I agree with those who say take the child's opinion into account, but ultimately it is a parental decision. However, the child should be fully informed about which schools you apply for and in what order.

[quote shinysealioninahat]@PatriciaPerch in England, you don't reduce your chances of getting into a school br putting it number 2 on the list, if you don't get onto choice 1. [/quote]
Yes, you may do. Admissions authorities try to accommodate as many first choices as possible. Therefore if your son doesn't get into school 1 on the basis of distance, he won't automatically get his second choice if all the available spaces in school 2 have been taken by families who put it down as their first choice. They're not going to bump another child out of their first choice place for which they are eligible just because your child hasn't got his first choice.

@Pobblebonk

I think the more sensible argument is that, if he puts school 1 down and doesn't get in, there is a distinct danger that he may not get into school 2 if it is full, and may end up in whatever school has a vacancy which may be some distance away and where he may not know anyone.

It always amazes me how many people have no knowledge/understanding of equal preference, so presumably have never applied for a school place, but still give 'advice' on applications.

If he wouldn't get a place at school 2, it wouldn't make a difference where in the order of preference it is placed.

[quote shinysealioninahat]@BrumBoo that sounds really awful for you . I wouldn't send him to a school where he didn't know anyone as it's not necessary and it would be awful for him. Ironically he's likely to have more established friends at my choice of school than his because of the geography of our area. But that doesn't trump your bestie, does it? [/quote]
I really wouldn't put this much weight on his "bestie" if I were you. Children grow up so much in secondary school and often grow away from the friends they made at primary school. I remember meeting the child who had been my primary school best friend after a gap when we were both 18, and finding her unbelievably boring.

I realise your son may not accept that, but perhaps you can reassure him that he will still see plenty of his best friend out of school?

So she started this September? If so, the bit about not telling her because of lockdown doesn't make sense because the application would have been done last year - months before any of us knew about Covid.

Always one:) She didn't question the application submission, she questioned the verdict, which came out in March.

I really wouldn't. If you're saying he has the choice, be honest and let him. And you say he's not likely to get in anyway? So it's not likely to make much difference if you put your choice rather than his at number one.

As in I wouldn't put your choice at number one, I mean!

@Pobblebonk you are incorrect. Some other posters have explained it very well further down the thread.
Family A - put school 1 as their first choice. No chance of getting in because distance etc. School 2 is their second choice. Highly likely they'll get in as live next door.
Family B - put school 2 as their first choice. No real chance of getting in because they live quite along way out of its typical catchment. School 1 is their second choice and they live close by.
They'll both get their second choices. Putting a school first on the list doesn't trump admissions criteria so looked after children, siblings, distance etc.