To not put DSs first choice secondary at number one, but not tell him?

[shinysealioninahat]

We have two secondary options. Both good schools, academically pretty similar etc. School 1 is slightly further and we may not get in through distance.
DS's prefers school 1 as his best friend will be going there. He accepts he may not get into it.
I prefer school 2, as I think it will suit his needs better. Several of his friends will be going there.

I'm so tempted to put school 2 first, then school 1, and when the offers come out, just tell him school 1 didn't have a place due to catchment. He'd not question that.

Would that be really awful of me, for lying to him, and actively not giving him the option of going to the same school as his best friend?

When we were looking around secondary schools, I always made it clear to my DD that while I would consider her views, the ultimate decision would be mine. Of course a 10 year old child will want to go where their best friend goes, but as an adult, a minimum of 5 years of secondary has to be based on more than that. A year 6 child isn’t usually mature enough to make that kind of decision.

I think your issue is that you let your DS believe it was his decision to make. You need to fix that assumption.

In my personal experience, lots of primary friendships quickly fall by the wayside once year 7 starts - especially if they end up in different classes which is very common.

We are surrounded by excellent secondaries. Only one is in catchment but historically children have had places in non catchment schools. We allowed dd chose her school, but she wasn’t choosing it based on friends, rather in where she felt most comfortable. She didn’t get first choice and is not terribly happy at the catchment school.

I think I’d sit your ds down and talk about the pros and cons of the school. If your ds can vocalise why he likes the school better, this would be a good indicator in your decision making.

As for the suggestion, your ds will get in the other school if things go wrong, I wouldn’t be so sure. Schools are fit to burst.

@Mintychoc1

Yes I would. Partly because you feel it would suit him better. But also because if he’s not in catchment, he may not get school 1, and if school 2 is also full, he may just get allocated random school 3. If school 2 is your catchment school then go for it.

Friends change so much anyway.

This!

I saw this lots when mine went to high school. Depends on the allocation criteria I guess.

To add this was now 16 years ago, I can see allocation appears to be different now from other posts.

Either way, I wouldn’t entertain the other school, I would just sell the school you have chosen. He absolutely is unlikely to remain besties with his primary bestie and may miss out on having lots of local friends as a result. It’s a long time 7 years when all your friends are a car journey away to play out with.

So she started this September? If so, the bit about not telling her because of lockdown doesn't make sense because the application would have been done last year - months before any of us knew about Covid.

Depends where you live. The deadline for applying for secondary where I am is February. Still a little bit pre-covid but not months earlier.

Similarly the order of preference here is taken into account in allocating places.

Whilst the discussion has since moved on and people do seem to be discussing England, why is it that people leap to the conclusion that posters are lying/misinformed rather than thinking 'oh, maybe it's different in the other parts of the UK. I wonder where they live?'.

One child wanted to go to school 2 because their best friend was supposed to be going there. It's further away and means they have to be driven and picked up. School 1 is almost next door and just as good.

They got into School 2, their best friend didn't and now goes to school 1. They are on the waiting list for school 1 but the girls stopped really being best friends in year 6 anyway.

My mother sent my brother to a school he didn't want to go to. He hated everyday of school, was bullied was miserable and now 20 years after leaving school it still bothers him. I would let my children decide.

What parent let's a 10 year old make the final decision here?

He has stated a preference. You have your preference. A good compromise is school 2 goes first and you see what happens.

I'm genuinely surprised so many people would let a 10 year old make this decision

Don’t lie. My parents chose my secondary school as we’d just moved. I LOATHED it. It was supposedly good in academics, but huge, impersonal, up itself (acted like a private school but was a state school) and had very very poor pastoral care. Realistically, where ever he goes, he’s likely to be happier and more successful if he’s chosen and comfortable.

It"s your choice. He has an input of course, but he's 10 years old and can't appreciate which school will serve him better over the long term. My DS went to a different school to his best friend and they still see each other weekends, face time etc. I just see that as parenting, rather than any thing controversial.

@lakeswimmer

No you shouldn't do that. It would be a really shitty thing to do. I would talk to him about why I thought school 2 was a better choice but I would respect his choice.

If school 1 is further can you get him there? If transport is going to be difficult then I would also talk to him about that too but I wouldn't lie to him.

Respect his choice?

At 10, it's not his choice.

@shinysealioninahat. That's the 'easy' option, but I wouldn't, no. I'd just tell him we were putting 2 as our first choice & why. He's TEN, it's your decision, he can grump about it if you can't convince him it's the best decision, but he'll come around.

Yeah don’t lie. My mum did stuff like that and it still makes me feel fucking awful and angry at her.

You should have the kind of relationship where you can talk about these things with your son. That should be your main focus. If you don't have that kind of relationship then your main focus should be facilitating that.

@Allywill

I wouldn’t lie but I would be clear choosing a secondary school is a parental decision not a child’s. He gets to express an opinion. You get to complete the form as you see fit.

This. You listen, you discuss, then you as the parent make a decision. Following his friend is a poor basis for the choice.

why is his choice school not the best in your opinion op?

Why are you giving him the choice to choose?

My DD is only 4, but when the time comes I'm not going to allow her to choose which secondary she goes to. This is surely a decision suited to parents?

We also made choices that our children wouldn't have chosen, but they agree now 100% it was the right thing to do. We listened to their views, put our thoughts forward, but said ultimately we were the adults and we would be making the final decision.

We did the same. With one child it meant an anxious time until they actually started at the school. But within two weeks it was clear to DC that we'd chosen correctly.

@Pobblebonk I and others (including the OP) have already explained this upthread, but putting school second does not affect your chances of getting a place in England. All LEAs have to use an equal preference system by law. There are admissions experts who regularly post on Mumsnet explaining this and all LEA admissions booklets will also explain the process.

You need to discuss it but you are the adult and you know the other implications about travel, not getting into the school and the issues that could cause with allocations of other schools etc. Also there is no guarantee he will be in a class with his best friend.

My daughter was desperate to go to the school her friends were going to.
She got there and was in a class with nobody she knew. It took her nearly two years to settle with a new group of friends as it really threw her confidence. So when my next child went to secondary I chose on factors other than friendships.

I was tempted to do that for my son but in the end he changed his mind to my way of thinking. I really don't think it's as bad as many here are saying. He's 10 and unable to see the wider picture. You are the parent and sometimes have to make decisions they don't like for their own good. However if he ended up hating your choice you would feel pretty bad.

@lyralalala

Is his best friend the only friend going to school 1?

I wouldn't let a 10yo choose their secondary based on one friend. Friendships can change a lot going to secondary. If most of his friends are going to school 2 and it's the better school for him then I'd be putting that first on the form (and telling him so).

Was going to say similar.

Choosing a school on a friendship that will probably change is daft.

The letter in our county says your child has a place at xxx school there is no mention of ranking. So no lie required, just limited disclosure.

Adulting is about looking at the bigger picture.

If he ll be happier at school with his best friend, then that’s the best school for him.

I wouldn’t lie but I would be clear choosing a secondary school is a parental decision not a child’s. He gets to express an opinion. You get to complete the form as you see fit.

This.

@GetThatHelmetOn

What about the LEA officer? He was the one who brought it up? Then I asked the schools and they told me the same. Both schools I wanted were defined as outstanding in Ofsted but the nearest to us was not bad but was far from being as good so there were a huge amount of people in the catchment of the not so good school trying to get a place in the other 2.

Either way, he got the place.

You want school A but you know it is a bit of a long shot due to distance from the school. You list it first on the off chance you will get in.

Criteria is a place for everyone unless it is oversubscribed and then the admissions criteria kicks in, usually

-children with EHCP if there are still places then it goes to
-looked after children (in foster care) or previously looked after (now adopted)
-Medical needs but no EHCP
-siblings
-children of staff (not that unusual, nice sweetener for the teachers)
-feeder primary schools x 4
-closest school
-any other children

You probably fall into "any other children" as it is not your closest school but you may get a place. If it is your preferred school you lose nothing by listing it first. If that school is full, they look at your second choice school and again apply the criteria for that school.

To use the one above, Billy lives next to the school but doesn't attend the feeder primaries, his parents don't work as teachers and he has no siblings at the school so he comes in as "closest school". Technically someone living 5 miles away who attends the feeder primary and actually lives over the LEA border still gets in before Billy.

A better argument than "but friendships will change" is "you might hardly ever/never see your best friend at school" (though this won't work if they are planning to walk to school together, for example). DD went up to secondary school with at least 10 children she was decent friends with. Absolutely none of them were put in her tutor group (with which she had the vast majority of classes) so she was forced to make a whole new set of friends. However, she is still close friends with many of her primary school friends (she's now in Year 10) - albeit this is via walking to school with them, out of school activities and social media rather than spending much(any) time with them at school. So I'd focus on ways the friendship will survive out of school, pointing out that it might not have ways to survive in school!