To tell my friend her behaviour was odd...?

[pollymadetea]

I met a friend for a walk / picnic yesterday.
We’ve both got small babies (6 months)

It’s the first chance we’ve had to meet and I was really looking forward to it.

Turns out I found the afternoon quite stressful and didn’t enjoy it.

We started off having a walk but every few minutes she was reminding me to stay away from her and the baby and pointing out that I had broken the 2m “barrier”.

I hadn’t done this on purpose and I’m well aware of how to distance, but some paths were smaller than others so it wasn’t possible to be exactly two meters apart, although we weren’t far off!!
Yet she kept pointing out that I was less than 2m.

I’d taken a lunch bag with me and the basket in my pram was already quite full, she didn’t have anything in hers so I asked if I could put my lunch bag under her pram.

She told me it wasn’t safe for me to do that because it’s risking spreading Covid.
I didn’t say anything about this, I just carried my own bag.

We sat down and ate our picnic and I suggested we let the babies play together but she was really against this idea and said the babies should distance.

As we were leaving and packing up, her sons blanket fell from the pram, I picked it up and gave it to her and she told me she didn’t want to take that now and I shouldn’t have touched it as it’s not safe and it’s how Covid spreads.
I apologised and told her I’d sanitised my hands after we’d eaten.

She told me to just put it under the pram, which I did.

She then said she would walk back to the car alone as the path was too small for us to distance so we said our goodbyes and we left.

She’s messaged saying she had a lovely day and would I like to do it again.

But I didn’t really have a lovely day, I felt on edge around her and I think I’d feel the same if we were to meet again.

Should I tell her that she was being too extreme? Or is it that I’m too relaxed??

@pollymadetea you’re so determined Thad you did nothing wrong that I wonder why you started the thread.

She sounds OTT to me but then I’m baffled as to why you suggested the babies “playing” together when her anxiety was already clearly up in the boughs!

The blanket thing and the path thing are understandable.

But your attitude about the babies makes me thing you are being quite flippant about it. You keep saying they’ll be in nursery together in January - that’s four months away! Surely you know a lot can happen in four months?

So no, don’t tell her she’s odd. She didn’t tell you that you were being odd.

OP - you've said

every few minutes she was reminding me to stay away from her and the baby and pointing out that I had broken the 2m “barrier”.

and

I wasn’t purposely breaking the 2m distance, it was only when paths were narrower and it was for less then 5 minutes before the path was wide again and we were back to 2m!
I’ve read that close contact is less than 2m for 15 minutes and we definitely weren’t less than 2m for that long.

So you "every few minutes" you came closer than 2 metres to her, sometimes for a few minutes at a time. Maybe more than 15 minutes in total? Plus you were talking which is more of a risk and if either of you had sneezed or coughed that would definitely be even more of a risk.

@saraclara
In England it's 1m+ so if you're there, she was being OTT

People don't understand what 1 metre plus means.
It doesn't mean a bit over one metre.
It means One metre distancing PLUS other measures, ie a perspex shield at a till, or a mask.
Neither of you were wearing masks i guess

She is trying to keep to the rules to protect herself, you are a bit more relaxed. Neither of you are "odd", but you need to listen and respect her, not unreasonable in the circumstances, boundaries.

I saw a post on here a few days ago about someone distancing their baby and the OP really got a LOT of stick for it

So is your post today just to get validation YOU are right and your friend is odd? Replies will be dependent on information given and from different people.

Regardless of who is right or wrong in your situation, it is about respecting others.

Look, you're both doing your best. She sounds a bit more anxious than you are.

Half of the country think the other half are over-reacting, half of the country think the other half are being too careless. It'll never be perfect and we'll never all agree 100%.

We're all affected by this bloody pandemic. We're coping in different ways. Please try to go for the kinder option, check your friend is okay. I think it's helpful to note that it's a weird situation, confusing, difficult and uneven. That we're acting differently, under stress, uncertain and worried. That can lead to suspicion, ridicule, lashing out, defensiveness, aggressiveness, frustration, upset, all sorts.

We need to try and not let it destroy friendships, communities, families, etc. We need to try and cut each other some slack. A bit more forgiveness and a bit more understanding.

@kateclarke

I’m going against the grain and saying that I think she was right.

I’m an ICU nurse and have seen what COVID can do.

We all need to be more careful to protect ourselves and our loved ones.

I think she was right too. I have no idea why anyone would risk getting COVID when the guidelines on how to avoid it are fairly simple. Is it really such a massive big deal to be properly observant of guidelines until we get through this?

I also disagree that your friend is necessarily 'overly anxious'. I'm not. I'm at ease with my choices and feel safe and confident in them.

It's not COVID that makes me anxious, because I know how to approach it. What bothers me are friends who don't follow the guidelines properly and the awkwardness I feel of having to politely deal with that.

She sounds anxious. I think you need to be a better, more understanding friend x

I’m not sure this actually helps someone. I have a child who has GAD and fucked if I was going to spend my life enabling them. Supporting them, yes but that means encouraging (or in our case ‘making’ when they were young enough and under our parental control and then providing an ultimatum once they passed that age) them to get proper medical and psychological support so that their anxiety minimises effects on others around them and is optimally controlled to enable them to be more comfortable themselves. Yes, sometimes it falls to shit and everyone around them puts up with a bump here and there while they get the assistance they need to pull themselves up again but just rolling with it and putting up with behaviour that adversely impacts on siblings, friends, work colleagues etc - nope.

I have a quite relaxed attitude to things but I certainly wouldn't do anything that made a friend uncomfortable, and I would follow the lead of those who were most risk-averse to ensure they felt comfortable meeting up. That's my general guiding principle.

I think it's reading the situation- in this scenario I would never have picked the blanket up as I would have seen from her previous behaviours that she would be uncomfortable with that.

Why did she have to keep reminding you about the 2m thing?

Surely as soon as you realise a friend wishes to stick tightly to the rules you just do that?

Not only that why would you suggest that a friend, who has already repeatedly shown you she is being careful and sticking to the rules, let her baby play with yours?

It would have been much less stressful if you'd just understood and accepted her wishes after the first or second time and not had to be reminded every few minutes.

You say she's not a close friend so I wouldn't either start asking if she's ok, etc - that's likely to get defensive and possibly heated so I wouldn't go there with someone I'm not really close to - and I just wouldn't see her again for the time being. It doesn't sound like anyone enjoyed themselves so I don't think there's any need to worry about who is right and who is wrong, just accept that you aren't compatible at the moment.

Even if it will only kill one person this winter, I believe we should take the necessary steps to make sure that we do our best not to lose that one person.

Even if the reduced level of routine medical appointments mean that several other people aren’t diagnosed with cancer at a stage early enough for them to receive life saving treatment? Even if the economic fallout is sufficient to drive thousands of children into poverty? Even if (as happened to a friend of a friend of mine) her life saving chemotherapy was delayed to a point that it was too late for her? Why is the life of that one Covid patient worth more than hers was? It just isn’t as simple as that....

@NataliaOsipova

Even if it will only kill one person this winter, I believe we should take the necessary steps to make sure that we do our best not to lose that one person.

Even if the reduced level of routine medical appointments mean that several other people aren’t diagnosed with cancer at a stage early enough for them to receive life saving treatment? Even if the economic fallout is sufficient to drive thousands of children into poverty? Even if (as happened to a friend of a friend of mine) her life saving chemotherapy was delayed to a point that it was too late for her? Why is the life of that one Covid patient worth more than hers was? It just isn’t as simple as that....

Pretty sure she was just talking about maintaining a 2 metre distance and not letting the babies play together and touching each other’s belongings. None of which are going to lead to anyone’s death and which are really easy to do without ridiculous complaints and excuses or a shut down of the economy or cancelling vital appointments.

Very extreme I think

Spot on. I wish everyone would take the very basic things we are being asked to do seriously and stop thinking the rules don’t or shouldn’t apply to them. It’s really not that hard and people shouldn’t be criticised and called odd or anxious for doing the right thing and following the bloody rules which minimises the risk for EVERYONE!

Oh dear, sounds like a horrible time. It is about statistical risk, the virus doesn't spontaneously generate when you walk 1.999 m away from someone!

I wouldn't talk to her about it though, as you say you aren't super close friends and it definitely doesn't sound like she'll be changing her mind. I'd just reply back "yep catch up again soon" and not contact her for a while.

Sorry that was a failed attempt to quote @smellycats words of wisdom!

OP I have a friend like this and it’s pretty exhausting hanging out with her. But I do it anyway as she’s a new mum and doesn’t have much contact with anyone other than her parents. I (and even her parents) just roll our eyes a bit when she does something over the top, but it’s important to be a good friend to people during this time and I know she’s only acting like this because she has anxiety. I do too but I deal with it differently (by running an obsessive amount!)

OP you're getting a tough time here.

I'd politely text her back and say you'd love to see her again, perhaps when things are "back to normal" and she feels safer to do so.

Honestly? I started out offering help and support to those who clearly weren't coping with understanding the level of risk to themselves, as I felt the government messaging wasnt clear and was quite scaremongering, which was feeding people's anxiety. Over time as the official message has been focused & clarified, and more scientists have presented a range of views, my sympathy has reduced. Some people I'm taking a decision to reduce contact with as they just won't hear reason or are wallowing in it/feeding their own anxiety, others it's become clear don't want to return to work etc for other reasons.

@MyShinyWhiteTeeth

I don't see her behaviour as extreme. I see your behaviour as being too relaxed and non compliant.

Same here.

Its totally understandable that people feel very anxious about this and you need to respect their boundaries. The risk is pretty low outdoors but with virus levels going up I don't blame people for being more cautious.

But I also think arranging a playdate with small babies and expecting to be able to distance them in this way is unrealistic and picking up on every breach of the notional 2m limit is unsustainable and incredibly stress-inducing.

I think if your anxiety and caution is this high the onus is on you to take yourself out of circulation really... its not really fair to expect other people to be constantly tense and stressed about maintaining that level of control, particularly outside. Her reaction may have been understandable but it was also a huge buzzkill and not compatible with a social event.

I would text her saying: "this was clearly very difficult for you and I totally sympathise -- wonder if we should delay this until its more workable".

It sounds like she is suffering with a disproportionate amount of anxiety. This must have been an exceptionally tough year to have had a baby with minimal support to give perspective at what is naturally an anxious time.

Ultimately friendship is a mutual two-way process. If someone is making it stressful by nitpicking all the time, you are within your rights not to see them. You may offer support, you may protect you own wellbeing and put up boundaries. That depends on the depth of the friendship and the likely way your interactions will be recieved.

What sort of society will we be if we constantly berate each other for any imperfection and don't help each other for fear of a moment's (low risk) touch of an item.

@lyralalala

Why did she have to keep reminding you about the 2m thing?

Surely as soon as you realise a friend wishes to stick tightly to the rules you just do that?

Not only that why would you suggest that a friend, who has already repeatedly shown you she is being careful and sticking to the rules, let her baby play with yours?

It would have been much less stressful if you'd just understood and accepted her wishes after the first or second time and not had to be reminded every few minutes.

Agree. As I read the OP, I kept thinking "why did you continue to approach her?" Seems insensitive and lax.

To me your behaviour sounds normal and proportionate. If it was a friend of mine I would be a bit worried about them acting this way. It sounds like an unhealthy level of anxiety...