To tell my friend her behaviour was odd...?

[pollymadetea]

I met a friend for a walk / picnic yesterday.
We’ve both got small babies (6 months)

It’s the first chance we’ve had to meet and I was really looking forward to it.

Turns out I found the afternoon quite stressful and didn’t enjoy it.

We started off having a walk but every few minutes she was reminding me to stay away from her and the baby and pointing out that I had broken the 2m “barrier”.

I hadn’t done this on purpose and I’m well aware of how to distance, but some paths were smaller than others so it wasn’t possible to be exactly two meters apart, although we weren’t far off!!
Yet she kept pointing out that I was less than 2m.

I’d taken a lunch bag with me and the basket in my pram was already quite full, she didn’t have anything in hers so I asked if I could put my lunch bag under her pram.

She told me it wasn’t safe for me to do that because it’s risking spreading Covid.
I didn’t say anything about this, I just carried my own bag.

We sat down and ate our picnic and I suggested we let the babies play together but she was really against this idea and said the babies should distance.

As we were leaving and packing up, her sons blanket fell from the pram, I picked it up and gave it to her and she told me she didn’t want to take that now and I shouldn’t have touched it as it’s not safe and it’s how Covid spreads.
I apologised and told her I’d sanitised my hands after we’d eaten.

She told me to just put it under the pram, which I did.

She then said she would walk back to the car alone as the path was too small for us to distance so we said our goodbyes and we left.

She’s messaged saying she had a lovely day and would I like to do it again.

But I didn’t really have a lovely day, I felt on edge around her and I think I’d feel the same if we were to meet again.

Should I tell her that she was being too extreme? Or is it that I’m too relaxed??

Why is following current guidelines outlined to be safe all of a sudden “anxiety”? Do people trot out this quite offensive trope when people stick to other guidelines?

My parents have been behaving like this.

Should I tell her that she was being too extreme? Or is it that I’m too relaxed

This question assumes that there is some pre-ordained, 'correct' level that we're all meant to be aiming at; there isn't. She is much more extreme than you, you are much more relaxed than she is.

I'd suggest meeting again somewhere where you're not walking, and therefore constantly negotiating a 2m gap. Perhaps a picnic where you both stay on your own picnic rug? I think it's ok to point out that she seemed quite anxious about the rules, as long as it's done in a sympathetic way, but you can't tell a mother she's being too anything when she's protecting her child's welfare. Surefire route to friendship disharmony.

'You seemed quite anxious about social distancing, are you ok? Is there a way we can meet up that would be more comfortable for you? Perhaps we could both stay on our own picnic rug?'

@kateclarke

It’s heartbreaking when people are not taking it seriously.

I’m really sorry for what you’ve experienced and I’m thankful we have our nhs workers.

I really hope your comment wasn’t aimed at me. I do take it seriously.

I wasn’t purposely breaking the 2m distance, it was only when paths were narrower and it was for less then 5 minutes before the path was wide again and we were back to 2m!
I’ve read that close contact is less than 2m for 15 minutes and we definitely weren’t less than 2m for that long.

I saw a post on here a few days ago about someone distancing their baby and the OP really got a LOT of stick for it, but I’d suggested to let our babies lay on the same mat and I’m careless and irresponsible.
It really seems people cannot win.

And when my friend dropped her blanket, had her hands full and a crying baby in the pram, it was my nature, my caring instinct to pick it up and help. I really didn’t think I was not taking the pandemic seriously by offering some help.

You sound similar to me - I'm being careful, maintaining distance, socialising almost all outside etc but no, meeting up with your friend sounds stressful to me. I'd suggest meeting without the babies somewhere you can sit still and easily maintain the distance if you're worried about her.

Yanbu. She sounds completely over the top. How she would have had a “nice time” I’ve no idea! I wouldn’t be doing that again anytime soon.

A lot of the comments on here show exactly why the transmission rates have gone up. We need people like OP’s friend who are strictly following the rules. Otherwise the rules will become more and more strict. The amount of people assessing the risk as low because they see no evidence of symptoms is exactly why the virus is spreading.

If she is this nervous it must have taken a great deal of courage for her to meet you, and I wouldn’t be reducing the amount of non-physical contact you have with her.

The chance of you (or her) having Covid and passing it on is very small, but it isn’t non-existent, and if she asked you to stay 2m away it was unreasonable not to do that. It’s too early yet to say that you didn’t have it when you met up.

@pollymadetea no it was aimed at the poster who said I was a government plant.

I think you are a fellow mum who is just making the best of a shit situation just like the rest of us

It's going to be a long and uncomfortable winter if people start getting upset and offended at everyone who has a different comfort level to their own.

The OP isn't hugely lax, the friend isn't being OTT either, they just have different levels of comfort. I think when meeting up, people should go with the comfort level of the strictest person, unless it's very extreme, a f here it was very clear what she wanted, so I think you shouldn't have needed reminding frequently.

I have friends that I keep my distance from. I have other friends (not many) that I'll hug. It's based on each of our comfort levels, my knowledge about how much mixing with others they/we do etc. And that's ok.

It's a pandemic, we are muddling through this together. She just sounds like she is being fairly stringent with the guidelines. Perhaps if all of us were like her we wouldn't be seeing the cases rise again.

I think you’re both dealing with it in your own ways. She’s following the rules to the letter and you’re slightly more relaxed but still clearly being very sensible. Maybe it would be easier to meet in a park just for a picnic another time as there is less moving around so she could maybe relax more knowing that there is a clear two meters between you. It doesn’t sound relaxing for you but it sounds like she’s very anxious about the situation. I don’t think there is a right or wrong way of dealing with this and I think it’s all about figuring out where each other are with things. As someone who is also very anxious about the situation and who has found social situations hard but has desperately wanted to meet up with friends I’d maybe ask her what she feels most comfortable doing when you meet again because if she’s relaxed hopefully you’d also have a much more relaxing time. I guess you also know better what she’s comfortable with too so you’re aware that she isn’t comfortable with the babies playing together etc so you’d be able to sit and have a good catch up without the extra stress. Don’t take her actions to heart they just come from a place of anxiety and when you’re feeling really anxious about the situation unpredictable social situations can feel tough. It sounds like she really enjoyed seeing you and I imagine that now you know how she’s dealing with the situation if you met her another time knowing that you’d be keeping two meters apart at all times, not touching about thing of each other’s or having the little ones play together you wouldn’t feel so on edge either and you can just focus on chatting. This won’t last forever. Maybe ask her how she’s feeling about the situation too as it sounds like she’s finding it hard.

[quote missamericanpi3]@Asterion

If only symptomatic people were able to spread it, we wouldn't be in this mess!

If you look on the WHO website, it’s stated there that asymptomatic isn’t a big transmission risk![/quote]
Not so. www.statnews.com/2020/06/09/who-comments-asymptomatic-spread-covid-19/

Also, www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/latest-evidence/transmission

"Similar viral loads in asymptomatic versus symptomatic cases have been reported, indicating the potential of virus transmission from asymptomatic patients [30,42]. A community treatment center study (n=303) from Republic of Korea showed that RT-PCR Ct values for SARS-CoV-2 in asymptomatic patients (n=110, 36.3%) were similar to those in symptomatic patients [30]."

"The WHO created confusion yesterday when it reported that asymptomatic patients rarely spread the disease,” an email from the Harvard Global Health Institute said Tuesday. “All of the best evidence suggests that people without symptoms can and do readily spread SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes Covid-19. In fact, some evidence suggests that people may be most infectious in the days before they become symptomatic — that is, in the presymptomatic phase when they feel well, have no symptoms, but may be shedding substantial amounts of virus.”

YABU to want to tell her she’s been odd.

She’s fine. She has a higher level of caution than you and the decent thing to do would be to respect that. Neither of you is wrong in your perceptions; everyone finds their own acceptable level.

I suspect she was pretty distressed that you weren’t respecting her boundaries if she had to keep saying “2m” and in light of that, suggesting the babies play together was daft.

It’s pretty easy to arrange a more relaxed meet - you drop back on the paths, you both stick to your own picnic blankets and have a good chat.

(Personally I agree with you that surface contagion is not that much of a risk, it’s aerosol transmission, but I respect the boundaries of the most cautious person in any interaction)

@pollymadetea: you seem really determined that nothing you did was in any way 'wrong', but can you pause a moment and think about it a different way? The way you two interacted made you both uncomfortable: if you can pull back a bit, and she can trust you a bit, you'll both 'win' by being able to meet up safely and happily. You don't need to make her see you're right, or vice versa: you need to find a middle ground.

Personally, yes, if someone was stressing about 2 m rule I would absolutely maintain that strictly - my teens have been briefed that they should always, always assume people they meet want to maintain strict 2m social distancing and respect that, even if it means they (as low risk individuals) have to wait on pavements, stand back, reverse etc. It's really not a big deal to just take that extra step for a friend, surely?

YANBU Her behaviour was completely extreme. We all need to live through this, if she wants to live in such restrictive conditions her choice, but I'd be making it clear that I find it uncomfortable and I won't be meeting until she's willing to be more flexible.

I say this as someone sitting here with Covid right now.

OP, just think about this scenario. I felt under pressure from receiving regular messages asking if I was reopening or not, so I started thinking I just be overcautious and gave in. I reopened my self-employed business which involves working 1-to-1 with children and adults. I set up the room so that we're more than 2m apart (more like 3) with a huge hygiene screen between us. Windows are open all round. We're mainly sat sides-facing, so not really facing each other directly for much of the time. I obsessively disinfect everything anyone has touched and have scheduled 10 mins between all appts just to do this. I provide hand sanitiser and wear a mask and expect all clients who can to wear one too.

One young kid was dropped off without a mask one day, and he sneezed one time during our appointment.

I had to take last week off because I caught a horrible cold.

One unmasked kid, one sneeze, that was all it took! The hygiene screen and disinfectant and distancing and air circulation didn't stop me from catching an infection. And then once I got the change in taste and a cough I had to go through the hassle of getting tested which I absolutely hated. So please consider how easy it is to catch bugs from each other, and even if it turns out to just be a cold, the test is really unpleasant and you should consider trying not to force anyone to have to go through it.

Well she does sound quite anxious and overzealous by most people's standards but in fairness you really didn't take the hint. You tried to instigate touching three times and seemed quite bemused each time she said no. I personally wouldn't have been bothered but she had already made it pretty clear that she was.

There's nothing wrong with talking to her about it but it wouldn't be accusatory, she's not doing anything wrong either.

I don't understand how she can be this concerned and yet sending her baby to nursery in January, though?

She isn't odd or anxious or any of the other things people have said on here. You have different levels of tolerance. She's following each rule to the letter and I imagine Boris wishes more people were like her.

I'm very cautious about the spread of Covid, not because I've had any personal experience with it, but because I can see the figures, and although everyone keeps telling me that it kills less people than flu, I believe we all have an obligation to protect human life wherever possible. I don't buy into the "but we'll only lose X amount of people if we live normally" kind of theories. Even if it will only kill one person this winter, I believe we should take the necessary steps to make sure that we do our best not to lose that one person. Something as simple as social distancing and not touching other peoples belongings is not a hardship and can be easily managed by everyone. I currently don't spend any physical time with people who aren't taking it seriously, but I haven't fallen out with anyone either.

Ultimately you didn't respect her boundaries, because they weren't that important to you. But they are to her and that doesn't make you right and her wrong. YABU if you tell her that her behaviour is odd and be prepared for her to tell you that your behaviour is needlessly endangering others because that's clearly how she feels

Personally I wouldn't be meeting up with her again until the restrictions relax, it's too much like hard work if you're constantly being told off while trying to enjoy an afternoon out.

That's not to say that I'm not taking it seriously but slightly less than 2 metres for a few seconds isn't going to make someone catch COVID and if they're that concerned that it will, she should have moved herself in to single file rather than expecting the OP to do it 🤷🏻‍♀️

My friend was like this. The more we met up the better she got.

She sounds very anxious and if she hasn’t been out much then she’s got herself in an anxious cycle. We all just followed the rules completely and she eventually loosened up herself. Took about 5 meet ups before she relaxed more.

Very stressful for all involved though.

I don’t think that your friends behaviour is odd, you could have hung back or gone ahead on the narrow pavement.

And when my friend dropped her blanket, had her hands full and a crying baby in the pram, it was my nature, my caring instinct to pick it up and help. I really didn’t think I was not taking the pandemic seriously by offering some help

It's so easily done, OP. There are so many instincts we can't follow under the current guidelines.

I think this post is symptomatic of how people have become so casual about social distancing, which is the best way to avoid transmission.

You were in an environment where it was possible to stay 2m away at all times, but you still came in closer to her for several minutes at a time. Yes, this is quite low risk, but it's unnecessary risk, and the fewer unnecessary risks we all take, the better.

I would suggest you would be better off meeting where you both sit down at a distance and put your respective babies down on blankets next to you (both at a distance). Then you'll be able to chat and your friend will be able to relax.

I agree with @GoodbyePorpoiseSpit
Arrange another time. ( next year)