To strongly dislike Nicola Sturgeon right now?

[Loobyloo71]

Here to rant that Nicola has gone one step further and banned meeting in homes. She always feels the need to one-up Bojo, and hasn’t even given the rule of 6 she introduced last week a chance to see if it’s working.
Interested to know what the English think - do you think she’s taken it too far, or Bojo hasn’t taken it far enough?!

Seems like such a disparity that in England you can meet with 6 other households indoors and here none 🤯😡🤬😭😭

@Babdoc

Thanks to Sturgeon’s illogical and stupid rules, I cannot meet my daughter safely in my home for lunch, but I AM allowed to meet her for lunch in a restaurant full of potentially infected people. No wonder Scotland has the third worst Covid death rate in Europe. And a worse percentage of care home deaths than England.

Yes Babdoc that's correct. In public places people are forced to follow the rules therefore they are safer.

Many people will not maintain social distancing in homes because they are more comfortable etc.

It's annoying but it's not illogical.

Prof John Edmunds, who advises the government, said they did not go "anywhere near far enough", casting doubt on the changes of the R number - which measures how quickly the virus is spreading - being below one by Christmas
"To slow the epidemic down will mean putting the brakes on very hard. I suspect we will see very stringent measures coming in through the UK but it will be too late," he warned

Don’t think we should be criticising Sturgeon for bringing in stringent measures.
Also
Let’s not forget Glasgow has 5 Universities and many more colleges who have just imported many thousands of students into the city, many of whom are living in shared accommodation and student residences.

@lyralalala

70% of today’s cases are from Glasgow and neighbouring Lanarkshire. Cases are still low across the vast majority of the country.

Glasgow and Lanarkshire should have been closed down weeks ago and then there would have been much less spread elsewhere.

Let’s not forget Glasgow has 5 Universities and many more colleges who have just imported many thousands of students into the city, many of whom are living in shared accommodation and student residences.

Glasgow is not alone in having multiple Universities and colleges with students moving in.

[quote Ecosse]@lyralalala

70% of today’s cases are from Glasgow and neighbouring Lanarkshire. Cases are still low across the vast majority of the country.

Glasgow and Lanarkshire should have been closed down weeks ago and then there would have been much less spread elsewhere.[/quote]
More than half of todays Glasgow cases are from the Glasgow Uni halls of residence outbreak. Closing Glasgow weeks ago wouldn't have prevented that as they'd all still have been at home.

The first minster made it clear that she would Like to be able to close down hospitality If necessary but she can’t because the furlough scheme is ending and Boris won’t agree to extend it. And she is not allowed to borrow money to keep it on in Scotland.

So no, I don’t think she believes that it’s safer to meet your granny in costa than in her house. She is doing what she can to balance competing needs within the available resources - that’s what politicians do.

Time will tell if she has made the right judgement calls.

Same as with the nursing homes . The scientific advice was that hospitals would be overwhelmed with Covid cases so of course they wanted to get all the vulnerable old people out to the relative safely of their nursing homes. And they didn’t have time and resources to test them all first.

And no one knew that so many would have Covid with no or different symptoms. Ditto the staff.

I can see why it was thought to be a good plan at the time.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Same as with the nursing homes . The scientific advice was that hospitals would be overwhelmed with Covid cases so of course they wanted to get all the vulnerable old people out to the relative safely of their nursing homes. And they didn’t have time and resources to test them all first.

Well no, not really, hospitals were sitting with empty wards while patients had been discharged into care homes with no tests.

That should have been a last resort, there was probably time for the vast majority to be tested prior to discharge.

I can't see how what happened was ever a "good plan"

We would have had a nice new empty hospital to use as well if that wasn't another fuck up.

@lyralalala

Rubbish- not all the positive tests from the uni outbreak were in today’s figures.

Given that Glasgow and Lanarkshire have made up the vast majority of cases for at least the last 6 weeks, there has been plenty of time to act.

Sturgeon should clearly have locked Glasgow down about a month ago. She’s fucked up in a major way.

Waxon
Yes - but Glasgow was being talked about and it explained the surge. Lots of Uni's across UK have locked down halls of residence due to similar surges.

Regardless - the scientists in the papers this morning are saying what leaders are doing is not enough - even Scotland's tougher measures are not enough.

The scientists only have to consider the science and infection numbers though. Policy decisions that affect the economy, education etc have to take other factors into account

I like her. She is visible and makes strong decisions..i think she is right to ban visitors.

She makes strong decisions.....except in Glasgow.

There are large outbreaks of Covid in halls of residence in Aberdeen, Dundee and Glasgow. No doubt there will soon be more in Stirling and Edinburgh.

What did you expect, when thousands of young people get together from all over the Uk, Europe and the world? Did any of you honestly think that they would all sit in their rooms and not socialise at all?

Is the fact that they didn’t the fault of SG in general or NS personally ? Maybe she caused it with her voice or her shoes ?

I don’t know what the Scottish Government could have done to prevent these, apart from close the universities to anything except remote learning. That would have been a disaster for education and the economy.

No doubt they Would have received even more criticism for this.

These threads all go the same way - people screaming “they should do more and sooner“ followed by “ oh no this is effecting the economy and is inconveniencing me personally, they should do less”.

And “ the government should pay more” followed by “ I hope they won’t put up my taxes “.

News flash - There isn’t a way that they can put in place restrictions that will affect everyone else except you. That will control your neighbours’ reckless behaviour but allow you total freedom.

Another news flash - there’s no magic money tree.

No one can actually say what the SG should do NOW. But everyone is an expert on what they should have done 6 months ago.

I’d love to hear from posters who have constructive ideas about what should be done NOW going forward to deal with this. Things that are actually within the devolved powers of SG.

Any ideas anyone ?

Glasgow’s numbers were rising before the universities went back.
She took all the credit when there figures were good in the Summer but now it’s everyone else’s fault (public, students, hospitality etc) when things are going down the pan. Can’t have it both ways.

Everything Mrs Murrell does is to get one up on England, or to demonstrate her hatred for England. She doesn't give a toss about the people of Scotland. She has her raison d'etre and doesn't care what happens so long as she gets rid of England.

And this is for SIX MONTHS not a few weeks

It's not for 6 months. Boris mentioned 6 months. NS said the situation will be reviewed in 3 weeks, depending on rate of infection.

Everything Mrs Murrell does is to get one up on England, or to demonstrate her hatred for England. She doesn't give a toss about the people of Scotland. She has her raison d'etre and doesn't care what happens so long as she gets rid of England.

Evidence of where she has stated she hates England please, because have never seen this? Does wanting Independence mean that you hate England, or Wales or NI? Not wanting to be ruled by Westminster isn't the same thing but I doubt that would suit your rhetoric.

susanne It is wishful thinking on your part if you think NS is going to change her mind in three weeks! There is no way she is going to row back on it!! No way at all, you would be far better understanding the full implications of what she has done now, rather than clinging to a mistaken idea that she will suddenly have a change of heart - that just isn't going to happen.

If anything in three weeks given the university outbreaks, she is likely to make the restrictions stricter not the reverse. She wanted to close all pubs and restaurants as well don't forget, and was quite open about that.

Both the medical officers and the PM mentioned six months, they are preparing us for what is to come, as they should. Unquestionably we are all in for a very tough winter.

Komacho, there is little chance of Sturgeon solving world hunger when she can’t even successfully run a devolved council of one region of the UK!
My detestation of her is based on her ideology of divisive nationalism and her appalling record in office.
She asked to be judged on education- her party has presided over Scotland’s schools crashing down the international league tables to the point where she withdrew us from all but one of the tables to hide the embarrassment.
On the economy- Scotland has the lowest number of new business start ups per population in the whole UK. Scotland’s deficit is the worst in Europe and nearly double Zimbabwe’s. Taxpayers’ money has been wasted on the buy out of loss making Prestwick airport and the ferries fiasco, running double over budget and still not ready.
On health - Scotland’s covid death rate is the third worst in Europe. Our NHS fails to fill over 400 consultant vacancies because no doctors want to come here and pay £2000 extra income tax per year compared to colleagues in England. We were failing to hit waiting time targets even before the pandemic.
Fishing - Sturgeon wants to rejoin the EU, who are demanding 90% of the fish quota for Scottish waters.
Need I go on? I think that’s plenty of reasons to hate the woman and her party, along with their raison detre of tearing my country apart and turning us into a banana republic with a weak new currency and insufficient funds for our own defence, health and pensions bill.

The problem is not simply one of scientific advice, they deal with the virus spreading and it's containment / suppression from the scientific and medical view points, part of their remit is balancing treating covid against not treating or delaying treatment for other serious diseases but their advice is only one factor in the picture it has to be balanced against other needs.
Economic needs, people need food and a roof over their heads money is needed to pay for NHS etc education, jobs, mental health and families matter too so the restrictions can't just be made on a medical basis. This happens not just with covid, risks have to be balanced against other practicalities and benefits both on an individual level and on a population level.

For too long politicians of all parties have tended to treat different departments and their budgets as separate entities when in fact they are interlinked. Well before covid the fact that social care was funded buy local councils and hospital care by NHS caused bed blocking etc and was a constant battle about whose department paid for what. But actually though teachers say school isnt childcare it actually is at primary level though that is not why schools exist, their primary function is education but for the NHS and employment to work they need to be open regularly and reliably , childcare education and employment of parents especially are all linked they do not co- exist independently of each other but are dependent on each other.

bab Wow, that was quite a post, and posted with such honesty and eloquence. That just about sums up all the issues in a nutshell.
I am concerned that NS is using covid for political means just to add to your list, to cause even more division at a time when pulling together is far more important than anything else.

Also the political position and future of the islands is an interesting one.

I quite often had to drive through Airdrie and Coatbridge to get to work during the earlier, strict lockdown and there was lots of flouting of the rules even then in those areas, visible just from driving past. Groups of bored teens gathered together. It was a over the Scottish media. It was ignored by the authorities.

So to suggest that NS was somehow doing something especially better than any other leader is just ridiculous. It's totally unsurprising that infection rates remain high in these areas. No wonder people in Aberdeen are irked.

S00LA thank you for polite and rational comment.

The concern right now in SG and the UK in general has got to be that we are losing any ground gained in the last 6 months with a dreaded winter second peak looming.

I think the focus now has got to be on compliance and personal responsibility. Policies do not in themselves spread covid, personal behaviour does, we all know what is required now and cant disavow the consequences of that to someone else or by carping about rules.

I expect the press briefings will swing back to focusing on impact on high risk groups and NHS resources and the need for shielding as admissions inevitably increase and outbreaks in school and universities persist and proliferate. Without the mitigating effect of warmer weather and outdoor activities, mental health issues will be in the spotlight and perhaps the governments in general and SG in particular can do more here in terms of resources and initiatives.

if some of the comments on these threads are anything to go by, I worry that a greater number of people will be suiting themselves this time round and the current measures will not be as successful as they need to be. I dont have the answer to compliance, some of us will be fearful and isolated, others like key workers will be exposed to greater risk through no fault of their own as community transmission increases.

The media will have a huge bearing on the prevailing mood and appetite for 'self-sacrifice'. Unfortunately.

wherr

The biggest surprise in the spring was compliance, but that was back when we knew very little about the virus, and the campaign was very successful.
Six months later, however, generally people are fatigued and frustrated by the lockdown, struggling perhaps with financial and mental health implications, additionally some now feel bullet proof having now seen the statistics and the age disparity.

It is probably going to take another full lockdown to find similar compliance again, one that we can simply can not afford.

So we are now facing winter with a section of society that will have no compulsion to follow the rules, or will read it to suit themselves, a back log of patients building up in the NHS system that have equal or worse diagnosis, the winter weather and flu season will only worsen the situation - and we won't have the resources to rescue every last industry, so lots of job losses as well. It is an extremely worrying picture, and one that will be replicated throughout Europe - and if we are wondering why those making decisions look so glum, then it is not difficult to see why.

This winter looks set to be absolutely dire, and I am an optimist!