To not allow my 17 year old daughter to go on holiday with her boyfriend and their parents?

[cinderelly]

Hi my 17 year old daughter met her first boyfriend on twitter in June 🙈 Once lockdown was restricted they met up and have been quite intense ever since. Constant weekly dramas. We have asked to meet him but she kept making excuses. We didn't mind and just put it down to nerves. She started spending more time with him and she met his parents on 10th September. Since then - 11 days ago - they have been for 2 meals and the parents have joined too. I thought this was really sweet and asked when we could all meet. The red flags started after their 2nd meal - 5 days after meeting them for the first time - they asked her to go on holiday to gran canaria in December (her 18th). I was so shocked. We have never met them, I dont even know their full names and apart from being angry that they didnt broach the subject with her parents first, my initial reaction was "that is weird". Obviously she was flattered and was annoyed at my reaction. The next day I explained how I felt and thought she understood. I explained that i think it was too soon but would like to meet them. She was very defensive and eventually admitted that she was worried that we wouldn't get along. I tried to put her mind at rest and eventually backed off. I'm in no hurry and felt the holiday suggestion might have just been an off the cuff comment and assumed it would blow over. On Friday night the parents joined them again on a night out (the lad can't seem to go anywhere without them!) This time was to a bar in the city centre. My daughter text me at 11pm asking if she could stay over in their house. Again, bad cop here I said no. They dropped her off in a taxi about half an hour later and I used the chance to say hello and introduce myself. I was met by a very drunk and hostile mother. My daughter was drunker than id expected and the only thing the mother said to me was "shes had a drink ok!" My defenses went up immediately, so I just said "Really!" walked away and shut the door. I immediately realised why she was keen for us not to meet. Since then (Friday) they have booked a villa - apparently assumed she was going - still not attempted to get in touch with us - despite us knocking at their house on Sunday evening after (reluctantly) letting my daughter visit Sunday afternoon. She came home from college tonight absolutely sobbing her heart out because her boyfriend has 'flipped' saying we are too controlling and she should just go because she is 18.
I am absolutely flabbergasted. My blood is boiling and I find this whole scenario totally unreasonable of the parents. They have made no attempt to meet us and just seem to be poking for a reaction. Is it just me? I really feel like she needs protecting and I'm really sceptical about the parents intentions. Please help!?!?

@Charliecatpaws

If the parents had contacted you direct to discuss I would be more understanding but their behaviour seems very strange. The’ve not been together that long and by what you’ve said the relationship may be over by December. On another note I wouldn’t be making plans to travel abroad at the moment, but that’s my personal opinion.

Thats it. In a nutshell. Just contact from the parents. A bit of reassurance that she's in safe hands if needed. What's wrong with that.

The fact that she has kept everyone separate and not even introduced this boy to you or even her friends is a red flag. Actually, how much has she been seeing her friends since they got together?

For people who say that “she’s an adult, you’re wrong to get involved,” in years she may be an adult, but we all know very few teenagers are mature enough at that age and that they don’t need some guidance.

The parents going on all their dates and wanting to bring her on holiday would have me very concerned. Just what is their agenda?

I would tell her that if she wants to go on this holiday she will need to pay for it as you won’t be. I would also however have a chat with her about contraception, about STD’s and about consent, and boundaries, and how important it is to feel comfortable in a relationship and that if you’re not, then it’s always ok to say so or to walk away. You could frame it as talking about it because it’s her first relationship, and first relationships can be daunting things once you get used to each other.

The fact that this boy seems so insistent that his parents are involved in everything but that if her family get involved he has a go at her would have me concerned that she is heading towards being in an abusive relationship. You can’t say that to her directly, but you can make it clear that you are always there for her.

@SirVixofVixHall

OP said she "reluctantly" let her daughter visit her boyfriend on a Sunday afternoon. That's pretty controlling, I thought my parent was strict, but at nearly 18 I definitely didn't ask their permission to go anywhere in the day time.

@cinderelly They are almost 18, not 8. I realise this is a big step for you both but as almost adults they should be trusted to pass communication to their respective parents.

@SirVixofVixHall

Has there been some generation slip ? Not a single parent I kew when I was a teenager, would have thought telling a 17 year that she couldn’t stay at a very new boyfriend’s house was “ controlling” , or would have thought it fine to allow their daughter to go on a foreign holiday with a family she barely knows, even worse a drunken family she barely knows. I am mid fifties. This thread is totally baffling to me ! I have teenage daughters, my eldest is two years younger than yours OP, and this would really worry me.

its like an alternate universe never mind a generation slip. Whatever happened to common courtesy?

My daughter and I have a great relationship and ive never stopped her from doing anything

Probably because she's did as she was told in the past, you did stop her staying over do thats not true. OK his parents sound a bit odd but you are way over the top and trying to control this. Shes 17...here in Scotland you can get married without your parents permission at 16.

@hammeringinmyhead

Well, he wanted her to stay over (wonder why...) and he wants her to go on holiday and she is saying you won't let her. It does effectively give him ammunition.

Prob the same reason I want to spend the night with my boyfriend?

@cinderelly

Do you trust your daughter?
I'm not asking about him or his parents; do you trust your daughter?

And by the way. We are expected to pay for this.

Oh wow! That's interesting. My last comment is invalid, in that case, as I had assumed that his parents were paying, or perhaps she was paying for herself.

I would not be dictated to by a 17 year old when it comes to my own money. That's ridiculous. She doesn't get to demand that you pay for her to go on holiday with her boyfriend, and I would go as far to say that it would be really bad parenting to give in to that. What sort of lesson does that teach?

I'd be concerned too. The red flags to me are, the relationship is volatile, your DD is not allowing you to meet the BF or his parents, the mother was aggressive towards you. As other posters have said talk to your DD and ask her BF round to your house, it might help you make a your decision about the holiday easier. I can't see why she would think that was unreasonable.

Well unless she has a way to pay for this, your problem is solved. As PP keep saying, she’s an adult and can make her own decisions. This also applies to her financing it herself.

Also, they allowed your underage daughter to get drunk!

It will also be her 18th birthday and she may ask for this as her gift.

She still went tho. I wouldnt dream of stopping her. She makes her own choices.
Maybe reluctant was the wrong word. I was concerned about the family she was spending time with after the mother practically fell out withof the taxi on Friday night with her swinging jaw.

I’d be reluctant as well if she was visiting the same people who had taken her out drinking the night before and then essentially turned up drunk at my house.

And agree with a PP, this idea that people should just let their seventeen year olds go and do whoever ever they want without concern is baffling to me as well.

While I wouldn’t insist on meeting parents if they were just seeing each other, as a parent, if my DS wanted to bring his GF on holiday it would never even occur to me not to meet the parents first. Any parent who wouldn’t be concerned about their seventeen year old going on holiday with some boy they’d met on the internet and was reluctant to introduce them not only to them but to their friends as well should question why that is.

It's a really weird time to go anywhere! Even to the pub after 10.00pm is not going to be possible at the moment.

What will happen is a local lockdown afters the area?

I think what we 'allow' or don't allow our kids to do at the moment cannot simply be compared to what we ourselves did at 17 or 18 when there was not an international pandemic!

If you show no interest in who she is going to another Country with or adults she socialises with who let her get drunk underage you need to 'start being a parent', but if you want to meet the people who are taking you daughter to another Country before they go you are 'over invested and controlling'. As parents we can only be one or the other according to MN.
We were over invested, but our children who are now all adults call it caring, but we tell them to be quiet as it is up to us to decide if we were caring or not, not them.

[quote RudieSmithy]@cinderelly

Do you trust your daughter?
I'm not asking about him or his parents; do you trust your daughter?[/quote]
Thats a very good question. My initial reaction is no and this makes me sad because I have always trusted her judgement.

The thing with teenagers is that you don't have to like their plans. In fact sometimes you'll absolutely fucking hate their plans, but how you deal with it sets up your relationship going forward. Once doors of communication slam shut they are very difficult to open.

I handled my DD1's first boyfriend very badly and once her back was up it was incredibly difficult. I'm 99% sure that relationship lasted at least a month or two longer than it would have because she felt like she had to make a point and didn't want to lose face.

My DS, now 19, only twigged about a month ago when DD1 was talking about that relationship, why I was so friendly and welcoming to the girlfriend he had a year or so ago. She (and her best friend) was very clearly going to be an absolute nightmare (and she was), but whilst every instinct was to lock him in his room and tell her to stay away being around them, watching the dynamic and listening when he talked about the bad points meant when I did say something he tended to listen.

Also if she has no money then the holiday simply isn't going to happen, especially in the current climate.

Pick your battles wisely

Do you trust your daughter? What does trust have to do with it? Should the OP not be concerned that her seventeen year old has befriended a boy (who for all the OP knows might be way older than eighteen) on the internet, has refused to introduce him to either her parents or her friends, whose parents have taken her out drinking and now she is insisting she wants to go on holiday with him and expects her mother’s blessing?

There are alarm bells ringing here, and tbh if that was how my child was behaving then I would question whether I could trust their judgement.

@ClareBlue

If you show no interest in who she is going to another Country with or adults she socialises with who let her get drunk underage you need to 'start being a parent', but if you want to meet the people who are taking you daughter to another Country before they go you are 'over invested and controlling'. As parents we can only be one or the other according to MN. We were over invested, but our children who are now all adults call it caring, but we tell them to be quiet as it is up to us to decide if we were caring or not, not them.

I know which type id rather be.

You are being a bit controlling OP. It’s hard, but you’ve got to let go at some point. She’s crying because she’s frustrated by YOU. I remember feeling just like your DD at the same age. My mum was the same. I wasn’t allowed to do anything and didn’t have a boyfriend until I was 21.

My (divorced) parents still haven’t met my in laws and we’ve been together 14 years and are married!

The bottom line on this is that it is completely reasonable to want to know who your 17 year old daughter is going on holiday with. That's not controlling or over invested. It is showing a reasonable level of care and concern.

OP is handling this badly with the best intentions.

She has a big birthday coming which legally grants her a lot of decision making privileges. You have a birthday to consider, though it may seem minor. It's a milestone she will remember, don't f*ck it up.

She is asking to go abroad on a trip that will more than likely be cancelled. You don't need to say it, common sense dictates it.

You do seem overbearing, whether it's because you are I don't know but it is how your daughter is reading you. On the cusp of adulthood you have got to change tactic and keep her onboard or she will become more secretive.

You have to show that you trust her, even if you don't. That will keep your relationship strong so that you can teach her. No comments about the other parents or the son flipping out unless she asks for your advice. Yes, his parents are likely dog rough but to her they're parents who are relaxed, allow her to drink (too much, doesn't need rubbing in) and recognise her as the adult she thinks she is. Your actions don't recognise her as that.

Sit her down, tell her you care and that you're sorry that it hasn't come across well. Tell her you trust her. Share your own experiences if you have any. Share your concerns too. Do not make a decision on the holiday and don't say no. Tell her you'd like to meet her bf. when you do treat them as young adults. If she's smart then the red flags are there for her too and she will reach her own decision with supportive guidance from you but only if she feels she can ask. If you talk to her about safe sex now she won't listen.

Their villa is booked, she isn't a cost in that regard. This decision can wait, Boris may be the bad cop for you. Tell her you won't make a decision yet, you'd like to get to know the bf. if it's really important to her you'll think about it properly and decide later on. The emphasis right now has to be on keeping lines of communication open with her and if you carry on as you are you're shutting those all down.