To think grandparents need to step up

[mypetEufy]

A friend of mine is a single mum. She struggled to work from home whilst parenting her active nearly 2 year old DD when her nursery was closed. She lives below the breadline, and is reliant on food banks.

During lockdown she often didn't get any kind of break from her DD for weeks on end. A few friends helped now and then, but she has still been run ragged, to the point of her hair falling out.

The thing is, her parents live 20 minutes drive away, they all get on fine, they have some health issues but nothing to stop them helping in one way or another if they really wanted to. They are retired, active and not struggling with money. Friend has been super careful with the virus so her parents are not worried about her passing it on. Both parties are eligible to form a support bubble, if I understand it correctly.

Another friend has recently had a baby, she's a competent professional but struggling with a colicky baby, and interrupted sleep. She had a very difficult labour and is still uncomfortable.

She has has some health conditions which she managed in part, before her daughter was born, by eating a clean diet. She now eats pizza from ASDA most nights. She gets on fine with her parents; mentions what a good cook and baker her mum is. The parents live in the area.

My issue is that I can't fathom how some of my friends' parents aren't helping them when they clearly need some support. The parents are fully aware of the scope of the problems in both these situations. There are numerous other examples I know of in real life and on mn where parents have struggled and their parents have been cheerfully indifferent.

I want to make it clear that I'm not saying grandparents need to provide childcare when their children are at work, or do anything to increase their risk of catching the virus if they uncomfortable (these are grandparents who are happily going to the garden centre, meeting up with friends for lunch, going on holiday and to people's houses).

In both cases the grandparents are enthusiastic grandparents, are keen to be sent photos of their grandchild, enjoy buying presents, and repost those "share if you love being a granny!" posts on fb.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking some grandparents really need to step it up?

I dont want to cause any division and I know a lot of grandparents are amazing, but it's difficult to see my friends struggle. I'm asking here as I've heard mn has a bit of a 'grandparents have no obligation to do anything outlook', and was wondering if there comes a point where grandparents really ought to help?

Of course grandparents aren’t obligated to help.
My own mother and father (healthy, 50s, plenty of spare time, had every weekend off/school pickups etc during our childhood courtesy of our own grandparents) have watched me struggle throughout lockdown, as before. My mum’s view is ‘they’ve raised their kids’ and this is their time. Fair enough. She gives the impression she’s Grandma of the Year though, photos everywhere.
I am sad and disappointed in her and my husband and I are planning to emigrate to be nearer to my two siblings so we can support and spend time with each other.
I would never leave my daughter to struggle like she has me. I just can’t understand it. Just an hour’s help her and there would have made such a difference.

grandparents who don't feel any obligation to help their adult children will find their adult children feel the same lack of obligation to help them when they are older
You reap what you sow, in many ways I'm quite glad that my parents were not active as grandparents because now I don't have to worry about being burdened by then🦋

I agree OP. My ILs are very like this - their attitude is 'we've done our bit'. Very conveniently forgetting how much help their parents gave looking after their Grand-kids.

I also just find it really sad - don't they love their Grand-kids? Don't they want to see them? I can't bloody wait to be a Grandma.

Of course they shouldn't have to provide childcare like a childminder does, but the odd day would be lovely, wouldn't it?

I do wonder if it's a generational thing for my ILs, and that they maybe had kids because it was the 'done thing'? Maybe they shouldn't have... they don't particularly seem to like any children.

My mum’s view is ‘they’ve raised their kids’ and this is their time
And mark my words here... when you are in your 50s and looking to enjoy your golden years free from obligation they will do everything they can to manipulate you into being their servant/carer....
They will expect lifelong unconditional loyalty from you.

I've written & deleted a comment, twice. Suffice to say I find this subject extremely difficult. My family, & my PILs, are both appalling. I fully expect that one or more of my sister's children will be on the Stately Homes threads, if they still exist, when they are adults.

DH & I are considering which of our friends to name as next of kin, & who would look after DD if we both died. Neither of our families are fit.

I voted YABU because your wording makes you seem entitled (even if it is on behalf of your friends). Obviously it would be nice if the grandparents were kind enough to help out but they don’t NEED to step up nor do they ‘really ought to help.’ Your friends seem to have accepted this, so it really isn’t your place to moan about it. Instead why don’t you put your concern to good use and help them out yourself?

I was a Grandparent who would head out t babysit at a moment's notice, travel anywhere to pick up ADC, "lend" money for anything.
THEN my ex husband re-appeared and as a master manipulator spun hundreds of lies that ADC believed despite having been brought up with only one adult in the house and seen letters from Child Support about difficulty in obtaining any money for the DC and other horrible conduct of the ex.

I was babysitting and being verbally abused by the ex I got rid of years ago. Ex's parents were nasty bullying manipulative PITAs, he was a liar a hobosexual/cocklodger which extended to my car, useless parent, didn't understand babies or children and generally a horrible person. The ADC began talking to me in the same way as exh, The DGC were also speaking to me like the ex PILs, the exh, my ADC. I was not hanging around to take the fourth generation of abuse.
I may look like a grandparent who does not care but that is not the full story at all. I left this situation before the pandemic/lockdown, I worry like mad about the ADC and the DGC but there is no way I am going to be abused by any of them.

I'm in my fifties now and my "children" are virtually grown up as the youngest is now 18 and has just gone off to university.

I tend to agree with you OP, although we all know that it isn't our place to say anything as we can never know the intricacies of anyone else's family set up and relationships.

From my own personal perspective, I grew up with the conundrum of very loving and caring parents, but they made it crystal clear to me during my teenage years that I was never to ask them for help when I had my own children. They were the same with my younger sister.

They have maintained that stance, with rare exceptions. My sister and I have three children each. It is hard to describe the attitude of our parents so that others really get it.

Outwardly, they show interest, but really only from a distance. They have made the occasional short visit to each of us (we don't live close to them) but mostly any relationship has consisted of a weekly phone call. They do send money for birthdays, Christmas and some special occasions, for which we are all very grateful.

That's it though. They even once refused to have my youngest two (then a three year old and a four month old) so that I could accompany DH to his Dad's funeral. On that occasion MIL (DH's Mum) had asked me not to bring them and as everyone else who could have cared for them was due at the funeral she wanted me to ask my parents. She thought they would be reasonable and couldn't understand my reluctance to make the call. So I was forced to make the call, and got a flat refusal, as I had anticipated and tried to explain. MIL was horrified and upset, as was I.

If I ever become a grandparent I want my own DDs to know that I will be much more available to them if they are struggling than my parents have been for me.

I won't interfere and I don't really want to do full time childcare, but I want to know my grandchildren and I don't want to be such a distant figure to them as my parents have been to all six of their grandchildren. All six are now grown up and all have said at various times that they barely know their maternal grandparents.

I find that sad. I think that a better balance could have been struck, but the grandparents just weren't willing.

I appreciate that for some families it is better to have no contact (toxic relationships and abusers etc.) but ours wasn't one of those. The grandparents just wanted their own little bubble after my sister and I left home. Everything outside of that was to be admired from arm's length only. That included the grandchildren.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking some grandparents really need to step it up

Yes, you're being utterly unreasonable, especially at present. Grandparents need to be protected from exposure to Covid.

@Heffalooomia

My mum’s view is ‘they’ve raised their kids’ and this is their time And mark my words here... when you are in your 50s and looking to enjoy your golden years free from obligation they will do everything they can to manipulate you into being their servant/carer.... They will expect lifelong unconditional loyalty from you.

Yup! Living through this right now.

Family OUGHT to help, yes, if you have the kind of relationship that facilitates it.

Like some on here, mine have been amazing to both my brother and i.. no formal childcare arrangements but never slow to say yes when asked to babysit, or do a school run, a sleepover...etc

I have a child with SN who doesn't sleep, and was disabled during my 2nd pregnancy with SPD, and i can honestly say, i dont think i would have survived without my mom and dads help the last few months as ExH worked shifts.. so i used to get DS1 and myself into the car, drive to moms, and have her on hand to help with him all day until i went home.

Now they're both older and i've separated from Ex my mom is still amazing.. but it goes both ways, i take mom shopping, do most of the heavy chores for her, run errands, take her anywhere she needs to go...etc.

My brother needs only ask and we're both there for whatever he needs too!

I can't imagine ever being any different for my kids.. both my parents would walk over hot coals to help me, and my kids, and their other grandkids.

IMO it is unreasonable to ‘expect’ help from grandparents. They have done the child rearing with all of the stress and sacrifice that comes with it. They are entitled to have their own life and put their own needs first and enjoy the nicer things in life. It is lovely if you have grandparents who show an interest, want pictures and are proud of their grandchildren(and by extension their children). Small gifts along the way is also a nice to have but being part of a support network is a big commitment when it is not something they have chosen to do. As for your comment on risk assessment before parenthood... why not? Most people plan to conceive in full knowledge that things can go wrong (be that additional needs or an absent father). Yes a pandemic is out of the ordinary and would likely not to be considered but the knock on of struggling with child-care arrangements would be something most parents consider and experience at some point (although not as severe I would imagine). If you can’t care for your child (not speaking financially as there are situations out of people’s control in some cases but in terms of day to day care) then you are not ready to provide for them.

Family OUGHT to help

No, you've chosen to have children you can damn well look after them.

Firstly, it should be the child’s father stepping up, not the GPs.

I'm also wondering where the fathers and paternal GPs are in all this. In normal functioning families generations help each other out as needed but the primary responsibility along with the mother is the father.

Standards are so high these days, you can see how trying to help doesn’t feel worth the effort

People used to say that when my kids were babies. It wasn't true then either. People who don't want to help/don't want help will cite this type of reason but usually its a relationship issue.

2) she’s making a choice to eat shit every night. She could pick up a pre made salad instead of a pizza.

Ah that old chestnut. Women would manage fine if they only managed a bit better/made better choices.
I recommend Sue Townsend's book "The Queen and I", specifically the section where the impoverished, tired Queen spends her small budget on white bread and strawberry jam instead of a bone pack from the butchers to make "nutritious soup".

Loving and caring for your DC shouldn't end when they hit 18

No its all much more fuzzy than that. Although I really must break my absent minded hand holding by the road for my 20 somethings

Totally agree with you!

Fortunately we get loads of help from MIL & some from my parents. MIL would go to the end of the earth to help us out with childcare.

I have friends whose family don't help out at all. No they are not obligated to help out, but now that I have children, I would do absolutely anything to help out if they ever had children.

Don't understand at all why they would t, unless health problems, other issues etc.

I'm really torn on this, but I agree grandparents are not obligated to care for GC.

I raised my DD alone, and I have sacrificed a lot for her (including a complete change of career that I hate, no relationships for 10 years and scrimping to pay for private medical sessions). I didn't have any help as I lived far away from parents, but I always had the view that I had her and therefore she was noones responsibility but mine. My parents sacrificed a lot for me and my siblings (worked very long hours in manual jobs), I want them to enjoy their good health now. However my Dsis has struggling with her 3 DC and my DM has helped her quite a bit and now she expects and this has stopped my DPs going on those long awaited holidays. And they are knackered from half a day with the kids which is affecting their health. Lockdown has made them reevaluate what they want to do and they have stepped down the care they were providing for GCs.

My DD is my life, I imagine if in a few years she said she needed help with DC I would help were I could but I would like to spend those years travelling (couldn't do as I had her quite young and then was very poor).

The whole issue is very complex with lots of different possibilities depending on personalities and dynamics. I do think YABU to judge though I think it's easy to say they should but you have no idea why they haven't.

Some grandparents are really not able to help. My parents are able mentally and emotionally but not physically. My in laws are physically fit for their age but aren’t with it mentally enough to help as they’re older. It’s nobody’s fault. People are having children later on in life than they used to so it’s natural that grandparents take on less of a caring role in their old age.

I voted YANBU on balance although I recognise it is complex.

Of course nobody should demand or expect support from grandparents as their right... but I do think it’s sad, and hard to understand, when parents take the view that “I’ve raised my own children, I don’t want to help with yours”. I am stretched at the minute (young kids, demanding job etc) but I still try to help the people I love when I can - I can’t imagine being retired and not being able to find even an hour or two in my week to make my own, much-loved child’s life a bit easier.

I always wonder how this attitude evolves through life stages - is it easy for me now, as a parent of under-10s, to say “of course I’ll want to help them, if perhaps not to my own significant detriment”? Did these seemingly-selfish grandparents think this too, when they were younger?
Were they people who never really enjoyed parenting, decided (for whatever reason) that they’d have their own anyway but weren’t otherwise even slightly interested in children? My family is fucked in all sorts of ways too, but my grandparents seemed to genuinely enjoy having me around some of the time as a child, I know my mum feels similarly about my children. Privately I hope I will have grandchildren, because I’d love to have a close relationship with child/ren again without having to also do all the overwhelming and less fun bits of parenting, and definitely if I’m retired or working part time by then. I have plenty of other ways to fill my time and wouldn’t want to provide FT childcare, but I’d definitely want to be involved to some extent.

Totally agree mypet but you will get loads of posters on here indignant at the fact that you 'expect' help rather than understanding the nature of your post which is that it is a shame if, family dynamics and health aside, we don't help our loved ones in times of need

Don't understand at all why they wouldn't, unless health problems, other issues etc

I'll try and explain some of it to you.

Your parents have worked hard all their lives. They raised you, changed your nappies, had broken nights, worried about you, saw you through all the difficult stages of childhood and then breathed a massive sigh of relief when you reached adulthood. Most parents then focused on their careers and continued to work hard.

From my point of view, my children are still my children and I love them unconditionally. I do help them out but on my terms. I need a life. I can't plan my life around the next call to "help out" with the grandchildren.

Under normal circumstances, I want to travel. We've worked hard and we can now afford to see a bit of the world. We don't want to commit to regular childcare, we want to have a life.

We have friends and we make arrangements to see them. I don't want to let them down if suddenly needed for childcare.

We both get absolutely exhausted by small children. We love them so much but they wear us out very quickly.

The vast majority of older people do have some health problems. They probably don't bore you with the details.

I hope this helps.

@Sertchgi123

Family OUGHT to help

No, you've chosen to have children you can damn well look after them.

please dont only take part of the sentence out of context.. there wasn't a full stop there.

the full sentences was "Family OUGHT to help, yes, if you have the kind of relationship that facilitates it."

Clearly you DONT have that kind of relationship with your family, so it wouldn't apply to you.

I think it's less a case of grandparents stepping up and more a case of a parent actually caring.

They don't have to be available for childcare etc, but seeing your own child struggle and not doing a single thing to help them like cook a meal (which is in scope for most adults...even those who aren't up to the task of looking after small children) could make a difference.

Small gestures of help and support can make the world of difference to someone, it's really sad when parents aren't capable of that for their own children.

Just trying to get you to see a grandparent's point of view. Those things I've mentioned are very relevant. Please don't shut your mind to seeing it.

why don’t you put your concern to good use and help them out yourself?

Wouldn't the default assumption be that I do help them? I'd have to be a bit of an awful person to just sit, type and point fingers.

I'm not the kind of person who can cross the road if someone is struggling. My problem if anything is having rigid enough boundaries so helping my friends doesn't shortchange my own young family.

Maybe that's why I'm so vested here. I can see they really need more help but I, and our other friends, can only do a certain amount.

We do find ourselves thinking "if their parents just did a bit then we could have them covered through this rough patch". If that's what entitled means these days then oh well, I stand by what I think.

Unless you know the personal dynamics of each of these families you can’t really comment can you?