To think grandparents need to step up

[mypetEufy]

A friend of mine is a single mum. She struggled to work from home whilst parenting her active nearly 2 year old DD when her nursery was closed. She lives below the breadline, and is reliant on food banks.

During lockdown she often didn't get any kind of break from her DD for weeks on end. A few friends helped now and then, but she has still been run ragged, to the point of her hair falling out.

The thing is, her parents live 20 minutes drive away, they all get on fine, they have some health issues but nothing to stop them helping in one way or another if they really wanted to. They are retired, active and not struggling with money. Friend has been super careful with the virus so her parents are not worried about her passing it on. Both parties are eligible to form a support bubble, if I understand it correctly.

Another friend has recently had a baby, she's a competent professional but struggling with a colicky baby, and interrupted sleep. She had a very difficult labour and is still uncomfortable.

She has has some health conditions which she managed in part, before her daughter was born, by eating a clean diet. She now eats pizza from ASDA most nights. She gets on fine with her parents; mentions what a good cook and baker her mum is. The parents live in the area.

My issue is that I can't fathom how some of my friends' parents aren't helping them when they clearly need some support. The parents are fully aware of the scope of the problems in both these situations. There are numerous other examples I know of in real life and on mn where parents have struggled and their parents have been cheerfully indifferent.

I want to make it clear that I'm not saying grandparents need to provide childcare when their children are at work, or do anything to increase their risk of catching the virus if they uncomfortable (these are grandparents who are happily going to the garden centre, meeting up with friends for lunch, going on holiday and to people's houses).

In both cases the grandparents are enthusiastic grandparents, are keen to be sent photos of their grandchild, enjoy buying presents, and repost those "share if you love being a granny!" posts on fb.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking some grandparents really need to step it up?

I dont want to cause any division and I know a lot of grandparents are amazing, but it's difficult to see my friends struggle. I'm asking here as I've heard mn has a bit of a 'grandparents have no obligation to do anything outlook', and was wondering if there comes a point where grandparents really ought to help?

Anything people can do away from a brainwashed government curriculum is good. The kids will probably be better educated.

Just as a reminder, the retirement age is now 67. Most grandparents will still be working when grandchildren come along, so not able to do childcare. When you do finally get to retire, it would be lovely to put your feet up, rather than running around after small children. Let’s not forget what hard work small children are.

I don't think it's grandparents needing to step up. I think it's parents needing to realise that being a parent doesn't end the day your child turns 18

You don’t stop loving your children, unconditionally, when they reach 18. I see part of my job as a parent, as raising my children to be confident, capable adults, who no longer need parenting. If they do need parenting, then I would feel I’ve failed in some way.

You probably don't know the full circumstances. I have a friend in her mid-50s with a stressful full time job, who is struggling to help her daughter out with the grandchildren and support her own ageing mother. She never gets any downtime for herself.

@Sertchgi123

Just as a reminder, the retirement age is now 67. Most grandparents will still be working when grandchildren come along, so not able to do childcare. When you do finally get to retire, it would be lovely to put your feet up, rather than running around after small children. Let’s not forget what hard work small children are.

I don't think it's grandparents needing to step up. I think it's parents needing to realise that being a parent doesn't end the day your child turns 18

You don’t stop loving your children, unconditionally, when they reach 18. I see part of my job as a parent, as raising my children to be confident, capable adults, who no longer need parenting. If they do need parenting, then I would feel I’ve failed in some way.

Perfectly put.

Our eldest is talking first child in about two years time, assuming her wedding can go ahead next year. If that happens, I’ll still be working a 50-60 hour week a 45 minute drive from them.

Do I go part- time to be on call in case of emergency? Probably not. We had no family help but managed fine using friends and neighbours in reciprocal arrangements.

Of course we’ll still support them, but not through regular, frequent childcare. I want a good relationship with my children, their partners and any future grandchildren as we all move through life. I don’t expect to be their servant, always at their beck and call. I do think we’ll have the children for weekends, go to speech days, help at Birthday parties etc and take the children on holiday during school holidays but that might depend on the needs of the child, the number of children and our own commitments. I suspect we’ll help with costs of large items but who knows what the future holds?

I see part of my job as a parent, as raising my children to be confident, capable adults, who no longer need parenting. If they do need parenting, then I would feel I’ve failed in some way.

There are some posters who really subscribe to the personal responsibility school of thinking, in that their grown up children should be entirely self sufficient once they have children of their own, I could understand this if we lived in a world where nothing goes wrong. Unfortunately this just isn’t the case, you can’t plan to avoid PND, sudden redundancy, death of a spouse, a relationship that was previously stable going sour, infidelity, serious illness or an accident that stops you from working. There are a number of situations that can suddenly throw your life into disarray, even pretty minor stuff like a fridge or washing machine breaking down and not being able to afford to repair it when you have a young family. Add to that the wealth disparity between the generations, older people are generally better off, have bought houses with one income, whereas as most couples now both need to be working to afford a mortgage. It’s great if you have got through life without encountering any of the problems above or others that could momentarily make your life difficult without help, but it’s not beyond the realms of imagination that as your kids might not have the easiest time, and that might not necessarily been self inflicted. Not empathising, or being willing, if able, to help your grown up children if times get tough for them is in my opinion a massive failure in parenting.

Add to that the wealth disparity between the generations, older people are generally better off, have bought houses with one income,

That may be the case for older people, say in their late 60s, but most of the folk I know in their 50s and early 60s who are grandparents are still working and very much needed 2 incomes, and still do. There’s a finite population of grandparents who are still working and won’t retire til they are 67 or later.

My D.C. will need support well into adulthood and I’ll of course support them to the best of my ability but it’s a fallacy to think there’s an army of grandparents with lots of time to step in and fill gaps for their kids - by the time work isn’t an issue for them they are physically less able to offer practical support.

I think it’s worth remember that grandparents now are often in their 50s and 60s and while in the past may have been working towards retirement at 60, that’s simply not an option for many now.

@SinisterBumFacedCat

I see part of my job as a parent, as raising my children to be confident, capable adults, who no longer need parenting. If they do need parenting, then I would feel I’ve failed in some way.

There are some posters who really subscribe to the personal responsibility school of thinking, in that their grown up children should be entirely self sufficient once they have children of their own, I could understand this if we lived in a world where nothing goes wrong. Unfortunately this just isn’t the case, you can’t plan to avoid PND, sudden redundancy, death of a spouse, a relationship that was previously stable going sour, infidelity, serious illness or an accident that stops you from working. There are a number of situations that can suddenly throw your life into disarray, even pretty minor stuff like a fridge or washing machine breaking down and not being able to afford to repair it when you have a young family. Add to that the wealth disparity between the generations, older people are generally better off, have bought houses with one income, whereas as most couples now both need to be working to afford a mortgage. It’s great if you have got through life without encountering any of the problems above or others that could momentarily make your life difficult without help, but it’s not beyond the realms of imagination that as your kids might not have the easiest time, and that might not necessarily been self inflicted. Not empathising, or being willing, if able, to help your grown up children if times get tough for them is in my opinion a massive failure in parenting.

Yes life happens, of course it does. Any of us could become ill and need help and support from family. That’s a different issue to us raising self sufficient adults. As a parent, I want my adult children to be confident, capable, human beings. It’s very easy to keep mothering them but it’s not in their best interests to do that.

You have to walk a line between encouraging them to be independent and perhaps helping them too much, regardless of wealth. If an adult child knows you will bail them out every time they are short of money, then you are not doing the best for your child.

I’ve seen it happen. A 40 year old man child we know, is useless with money. It doesn’t matter because his parents bail him out every single time he’s short of money.

I guess it shouldnt be presumed you doing it. I know a granny minding 4! I still think it was presumed she do it. Not nice. I would help but wouldnt do 5 days childcare either. Depends on health of gp too what they are able for.

I know of a few selfish baby boomer gps who just want to swoop in for the photos to put on fb and the hugs (then wonder why the gcs aren't that interested in them).

They seem only interested in themselves and think 'family' is only for Christmas and photo opps.

@allofthetings that's exactly how mine are and they are baby boomers too! They also wonder why dc1 wont hug or kiss them!

Oh and birthdays as df thinks he should be like all the other grandparents and have lots of family visiting and family meals etc but does not acknowledge he does nothing whereas the other people he is referring to are most probably lovely and welcoming and kind! He will complain that his family arent like the others . I have to pack up a toddler and baby to go see him and he will get no biscuits, drinks or anything in for anyone and I have to take everything with me including toys. His place is dangerous and not child proofed in the slightest and I will spend the visit making sure DC don't injure themselves and then he will say 'are you listening!' All of this and yet he complains we dont go much.
His choice of conversation is also not always appropriate for dc so I have to remind him. He will come over to mine rarely and when he does he arrives ina mood and states he is hungry and expects lunch etc and people running around after him and yet never gets anything in at his he is so mean.
Dc1 is scared of him too and he wonders why when he hasn't seen him for months then expects toddler dc1 to hug him

I think they have no time concept. My mam thinks I can stay out all day..as my sibling says did she pull young kids out places. No. Its v draining at times.

Putting aside, childcare you get back from your kids what you put into them. Same with grandchildren. If you don't work for a good relationship with your children/grandchildren when they are young and to do your best to be there for them, you can't expect a good relationship from them as adults/as they grow. There has to be foundations.

So if grandparents are still working and can't help with child care, that's fair enough but you can be supportive in other ways.
What you can't do is nothing and then expect lots of 'family ' time at Christmas and expect your grandchildren to flock to you for special occasions. The relationship will not be there.

I found when you breakup needed help/kindness was exactly the time my mother would exit for the hills.

They actually tried to make bad situations worse on so many occasions

I don’t see her anymore

MzHz. Yep same here. After a while my dad agreed I could move in with him (prekids) and I was grateful as financially completely stuck. The day I moved in he wasnt in, contactable and hadn't left out a key. I had to wait 4 hours with a car load of stuff to even get in.

When I got in my room was still full of stuff he had dumped in there. He didn't want me moving any of it 🙄. I begged to clear a mattress just to get to my bed.

This a wealthy man who now with his next partner is parr of dinner party society and wouldn't at all be seen to do that for his now step daughter....

Im struggling nearly 20 years on now with how cruel he was and moving towards lower contact. Its so heartbreaking when I know if his new wifes daughter had a baby they'd be all over them and supoort them...

Putting aside, childcare you get back from your kids what you put into them.
This is not always the case. Often the more a parent gives, the more their adult child demand. I know a lot of people like that.

@Mary46 that's like my dm too. I can relate to the time concept and remember staying in a fair bit as a young child yet she thinks I can manage to go all over with mine or something is wrong and will even suggest places for us to go!
She will also say things like 'ooo it's been lovely day today did you enjoy the sun and sit in the garden?'I'm like yeah dm sure I've been able to have a full on sunbathing session with a toddler and baby to look after which is even more demanding on a hot day; yes so much relaxation

@CherryPavlova the support you say you'd give your children should they have kids is far more than my parents or many parents on this thread have or would like!

Its a matter of peespective. The amount of support you're suggesting sounds wonderful and caring and involved. Having the kids for the odd weekend or taking them to the theatre and coming to important school days are all ways to connect and show an interest. Most people who are complaining about lack of itnerest would so welcome that. I dont know anyone who expects childcare tbh.

@Yesterdayforgotten yes my MIL and DM will say "what have you been up to today? Chilled?" Yes it's all so very chilling with toddler DC. also if I have mentioned to DM that I am not well she will just say oh dear hope you have a nice restful day - again with toddler DC that's not happening . It's like they have forgot .

@kiranhpp what have your DM and MIL forgot?

@kiranhpp 🥇Here is a medal for being unwell and having to deal with your own children.

Time means nothing I think. They dont get it. I try get home before the school time rush. Even with a dog I cant be out all day

Man 🤯

Well that’s unnecessarily bitchy Katherine

@KatherineofTarragon I think they have forgot empathy along with yourself