To think grandparents need to step up

[mypetEufy]

A friend of mine is a single mum. She struggled to work from home whilst parenting her active nearly 2 year old DD when her nursery was closed. She lives below the breadline, and is reliant on food banks.

During lockdown she often didn't get any kind of break from her DD for weeks on end. A few friends helped now and then, but she has still been run ragged, to the point of her hair falling out.

The thing is, her parents live 20 minutes drive away, they all get on fine, they have some health issues but nothing to stop them helping in one way or another if they really wanted to. They are retired, active and not struggling with money. Friend has been super careful with the virus so her parents are not worried about her passing it on. Both parties are eligible to form a support bubble, if I understand it correctly.

Another friend has recently had a baby, she's a competent professional but struggling with a colicky baby, and interrupted sleep. She had a very difficult labour and is still uncomfortable.

She has has some health conditions which she managed in part, before her daughter was born, by eating a clean diet. She now eats pizza from ASDA most nights. She gets on fine with her parents; mentions what a good cook and baker her mum is. The parents live in the area.

My issue is that I can't fathom how some of my friends' parents aren't helping them when they clearly need some support. The parents are fully aware of the scope of the problems in both these situations. There are numerous other examples I know of in real life and on mn where parents have struggled and their parents have been cheerfully indifferent.

I want to make it clear that I'm not saying grandparents need to provide childcare when their children are at work, or do anything to increase their risk of catching the virus if they uncomfortable (these are grandparents who are happily going to the garden centre, meeting up with friends for lunch, going on holiday and to people's houses).

In both cases the grandparents are enthusiastic grandparents, are keen to be sent photos of their grandchild, enjoy buying presents, and repost those "share if you love being a granny!" posts on fb.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking some grandparents really need to step it up?

I dont want to cause any division and I know a lot of grandparents are amazing, but it's difficult to see my friends struggle. I'm asking here as I've heard mn has a bit of a 'grandparents have no obligation to do anything outlook', and was wondering if there comes a point where grandparents really ought to help?

It takes a very cold and selfish person to not want to help your own children or spend time with your own grandchildren

I agree entirely. I was shocked by my mil when I met dh. She has nearly 20 grandchildren but has zero interest in any of them. In all the time I've known dh, she has never done a single thing for him, despite him running round after her. I doubt she'd give a dam if she never saw any of us ever again. I think it's truly vile, cold hearted behaviour. I cannot understand it.

@OverTheRainbow88

When I’ve finally retired I will not be looking after young GC (if I have any) in a regular basis. I’ve done my hard work child rearing, working crazy hours and if I make it to retirement I want to relax, travel and see my friends/family. I don’t want to commit to being home every week even if it’s just for one day.

Saying that, lockdown was unprecedented so can see that extra help would have been needed- but initially this was allowed anyway.

That’s fine, as long as you don’t expect your kids to run around helping you when you are elderly and your health is failing...

Works both ways.

I honestly think it is crazy and very entitled and anti-feminist for younger women or even middle aged ones (but less so) to expect their mums to mind their DC, full time and for very little or even no pay

I don't think anyone here is advocating this. Different topic altogether.

MN would go crazy if a MIL suggested not having that third or fourth child that you can't afford but then the MIL is a bitch for not spending the next 10 years as a childminder.
This is exaggeration. This is not what OP is talking about.

No. I'm the first to state parents should not cede over their inclinations to those of their parents/in-laws when it comes to their parenting. Their child, their rules. And sometimes this entails setting firm boundaries in place.

Grandparents are equally free to determine their own terms. They are not there to provide childcare on tap, or even at all if they don't want to. And this doesn't preclude their having a relationship with their grandchild.

My parents are dead, so we've had to get on with it on our own. MiL has looked after DC - now 7 - precisely once. DC receives approximately 3x yearly visits, reciprocated with about the same frequency by DH who takes DC to see her (I don't go). She facetimes DC equally as frequently: about 3-5 times a year. I'd call monthly, if this were a grandchild I purported to love.

But - these are her terms and provided she's not manipulative or abusive I'll take those terms on whichever basis she chooses to offer them. I don't interfere and don't stand in the way of their relationship, but I did stand back and leave the responsibility for maintaining that relationship entirely up to DH.

She will doubtless reap what she's sown in due course. It makes me realise just how lucky I was to have my own, very attentive maternal grandparents in my life, and I'd have loved to have the same for my own DC. But you have to work with the reality of the situation you've been dealt in life. It does no good maintaining the false hope of 'what if?'

@mypetEufy

Is there a reason your friends haven't asked for help?

They both seem aghast at the idea. They're both women who have had difficult lives to some extent and have overfunctioned for a long time. I don't know if that's related, I think they've just learned not to ask parents for help.

That's my armchair psychology for the day. May be way off.

Then YADBVU - you cant complain about someone not doing something when you arent even 100%sure they know the whole situation.

If they have always been independent and refuse to ask for help then they cannot be surprised that help is not just being offered. Equally if they have always been independent then the parents ma not be aware of how bad things are - eg for me there are things I might tell my friends about struggling to make ends meet the week before payday, but I would never say anything to my parents as I have too much pride to tell them that, even though i 100% know they would not judge me and would willongly offer help, I do not want them to feel that obligation when the "failure" is mine.

It's the same thing as offering/asking for a lift home off a friend - some people prefer to just ask the driver for a lift home, others think the driver should offer if they are going the same way and they know the other person doesn't drive. Neither are wrong, it is just down to your own personal view about who should be the one to instigate the request - the person on need or the person who is needed.

I think expecting full time childcare from grandparents is a piss take...I knew a woman who did that for her DDS two primary age dc. Then the mum had another baby and expected her mum to provide full time care for the two school age kids and the baby. The grandmother lost her free time whilst the kids were at school and I heard her moaning about it and saying she hoped she wouldn't have a fourth. I thought it was spectacularly selfish to have a third DC in that situation

On the other side of the coin, I remember reading a thread on here from a woman who had no one to look after her toddler when she went into labour...her healthy, able bodied mother who lived nearby just refused to help. I thought that was absolutely disgraceful behaviour.

Parents should always seek to help their children. Grandchildren shouldn’t matter. ( well they should, but here it’s irrelevant). If you’re kids struggling you help them. End of.

Yes I'd just like to say I wouldnt be declaring grandparents should be giving ft childcare, I would never ask that of my mum. But a few hours a week on a regular basis? Bit different.

It's a bit rough on GPs though. If they never particularly wanted to be GPs and they certainly didn't order their children to reproduce

The irony in one of these situations is that the daughter felt pressured to have children as her parents desperately wanted grandchildren. She's doesn't feel like she could do it over again but her parents are angling for a sibling for her DD.

Yes, it's nice to help out now and again. But most GPs are still working

The grandparents I'm thinking of are all retired.

It's a unpopular view but I do wonder if some parents just care less as time passes?

I dont honestly think dhs parents actually care about him. Ok so they might love him in so much as they would cry if he died, but day to day interest or warmth? I dont see it myself.

If kind of terrifies me that one day, a switch will turn off in me too and the affection and care will be replaced by only obliglitary love.

Or they could just be self centred arseholes. Could be a mix of both really as FIL was absent father in the army then having a affair and his mum highly favours her eldest, better educated, better paid son 🤔

@Legoandloldolls. Interesting...I hope it's not the case. Most people I know have close relationships with their parents. My mil also seems to have no interest in dh...if you asked her what his job was, she wouldn't have a clue.

Lego. Very similar mix of issues in our family.

I've often wondered of my parents at what point did they stop caring. They would atill3think they're perfect. Of course. Their lack of interest or concern in lockdown would suggest otherwise. Dont expect to see them til xmas for a fleeting visit.

@Legoandloldolls

Very interesting.

Loving but not caring.

You’re right really. Yes grandparents have done their child rearing, etc, etc, and of course they’re not obliged to help with child care. But it would be nice, if they can see their daughter or son is struggling, offer to help, either with their time or financially, obviously if they can afford it. I know I would want to.

YABU they are under no obligation. You want kids then you raise them.

Who's talking about GP's doing full time childminding?

i've certainly never expected that of my parents, nor was it offered.

We're talking about them stepping up and helping their kids when they're in need here... babysitting so they can go out with their partner once in a while, stepping in when pre-arranged normal childcare falls through. Having their exhausted daughter and her young baby over for the night occasionally to help her catch some sleep back, or visiting to watch baby for a few hours in the day while mom sleeps... being on the end of the phone for the emergencies and times when you really need help and support... you know, those times where at the end of your tether and you pick the phone up, dial and the first words out of your mouth are 'mom, i need help'

That isn't full time nanny/child minder duties.

and quite frankly, if your parents took the help of your grandparents for those kind of things, but then refuse to do it for their own children, then i think it's selfish, sorry.

I do agree in principle that they are not obligated and have done their time. We life far from both sets of parents and dont get childcare help so I do put my money where my mouth is on that one!

However I do internally roll my eyes when my dad expound on his newly strong feelings against grandparents being used as childcare, when I think back to my childhood with a day a week at one grandparents, Saturday at another, holidays my parents took where we stayed with various cousins, evening babysitting from family etc...

Exactly @DryIce. its hypocritical.

It perpetuates the boomer/gen x selfishness. Take the help from their parents when we were little, expecting the help from us when they're old.. but not helping their parents or their kids in return... just take, take, take, me, me, me.

Pizza from Asda! I’d call the police.

@Bubbletrouble43

Yes I'd just like to say I wouldnt be declaring grandparents should be giving ft childcare, I would never ask that of my mum. But a few hours a week on a regular basis? Bit different.

This!

I agree. My parents do nothing to help us out and they are both retired, early sixties, no health problems, only a 5 min drive away....

OP you can wish for a different society, maybe one that's more based around the family as in some other countries, but there's a down side to that too, e.g there may be more cultural sexism.

I don’t understand how, in a loving family, people wouldn’t muck in, offer help or other thoughtful things.
Isn’t that what being a family involves?

My parents have been fantastic support for us when we needed things - and spending lots of time with all the GC because they wanted to. As a result they have wonderful loving relationships with all of them.

My DC are teens and twenties. I’ve spent 2 days helping Eldest with admin and paperwork because he was overwhelmed by it and I wasn’t going to see him struggle if I could help.

When my parents were ill we and all the GC mucked in to support them, do the cooking and cleaning, drive to appointments, mow lawns.

Unless there’s a backstory, why on earth wouldn’t each generation help the others when they can?