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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

live streamed funeral without my permission

201 replies

geeta2002 · 19/09/2020 13:07

my father in law died two weeks ago of terminal cancer, we held his funeral yesterday and as a family decided not to live stream his funeral, all the people that mattered to him and supported us as a family attended. His dying wish was that he didn't want his ex-wife who he hated to attend the funeral, but she phoned the crematorium up and managed to get the live stream set up without our permission. She then passed this onto 'family and friends'.
Myself, my husband and my sister-in-law are very strict with 'broadcasting' our children over social media or any form of streaming over the internet yet this was done again without our permission. My husband is ready to sue the crematorium but do we have a leg to stand on?

OP posts:
Sunnyjac · 19/09/2020 13:47

My dad died in April and we had his funeral in May. It was live streamed at our request as only 7 of us were able to attend. The stream I believe was only available for 24 hours before being deleted. So although she’s gone against your wishes and you are understandably angry, it is likely that the video is already deleted. Check with the crematorium and ensure they have deleted it if not already done so. I think at the least they should apologise of course but think long and hard as to whether you want to get tangled up in legal proceedings right now. It won’t change what’s happened

Tomatoesneedtoripen · 19/09/2020 13:49

she was married to him, op
whatever your thoughts they do have a shared history

Runnerduck34 · 19/09/2020 13:49

Talk to the crematorium, not sure who needs to give permission for live stream or if as a public ceremony and its perfectly legal to stteam it but i can understand why you feel its instrusive. I dont think you need to worry about your dc being on the live stream its extremely unlikely to be used for anything untowards .
Maybe ex wife wanted to pay her respects? The split sounds acrimonious but they obviously loved each other at some point and probably spent a significant part of their lives together so maybe its been a wake up call and she is grieving.
I dont think it would be helpful to sue the crematorium, definitely lodge a complaint but then I think it would be healthier to let it go

thecognoscenti · 19/09/2020 13:49

On the 'sue the crematorium' point - you can't just sue someone for doing something you don't like. Generally there has to be a financial loss which I can't see there would be in this case. GDPR would be a real stretch too I'd have thought - it's not data being shared?

PinkPosyPetals · 19/09/2020 13:49

“

  1. Who can attend a funeral?

A funeral service is usually open to anyone, unless the family has stated that it is a private ceremony. The funeral service is typically an opportunity for loved ones, friends and those who knew the person to say goodbye. If the funeral details have been publicly shared, you may also take guidance from these.”

ClementineWoolysocks · 19/09/2020 13:50

We 'attended' a live-streamed funeral, all we saw was the vicar the coffin and the backs of two peoples heads. Your children have not been broadcast all over the internet, if that's your argument to sue then I think you're being ridiculous.
I get that grief might colouring the way you see things atm but let it go, your father in law is gone no amount of suing or anger at his ex-wife is going to change that.

Tomatoesneedtoripen · 19/09/2020 13:50

presumably the also had joint friends

just put it to bed op.

Flaunch · 19/09/2020 13:50

You can’t stop people going to a funeral.

whynotwhen · 19/09/2020 13:51

@ddl1

'Public ceremony. She could have attended in person.'

The real problem is not that she 'attended' herself virtually, but that she passed on the recording to others without permission.

But the others who she passed the link on also could have attended in person, right??

OP I understand the upset at this but really suing is ridiculous. And I'm pretty sure no one logged on with the intent to watch your children (?!)

BackforGood · 19/09/2020 13:51

I am sorry for your loss, but agree with the very early reply that anger is a natural part of the grieving process and this might be coming in to play here.
It is going to be a very grey area, as so many have alluded to, as anyone can come to a funeral, so I'm not sure they have done anything wrong here. I think your comment about her 'passing it on to all and sundry' is off the mark too. People don't watch the stream of a funeral 'for fun'. If people chose to watch it, it is because they felt they needed to say their goodbyes to. That is a natural human thing we need to do. They may have had an acrimonious end to their marriage, but they still obviously shared a lot together and there will be others who also had a relationship with him.

If it helps, I agree with what another poster said about the streams. Unfortunately, I have "attended" two funerals virtually over the past 3 weeks. You see the coffin and the speakers, not the family and friends gathered in the building.
It was of great comfort to me to be able to share in the service for both these people.
Perhaps you should take comfort from the fact that more than 30 people loved and respected your FiL.

AbbieFB · 19/09/2020 13:53

As others have mentioned, your children would not have been seen.

Wingedharpy · 19/09/2020 13:54

Rise above it.

OhCaptain · 19/09/2020 13:54

I think the people being all wide-eyed about him not wanting his ex-wife there should pipe down.

You don't know OP, you don't know the deceased, and you don't know his ex. So what if they "shared a history"? You don't know his reasons for not wanting her in attendance.

So the judgement and slight sneering is a bit much.

ddl1 · 19/09/2020 13:55

I am very sorry about your father in law, and also about the disrespectful way in which his last wishes were treated.

I am not sure about suing as the way to go. A funeral is in a public space, and technically anyone can attend, though the mourners can certainly request that only those invited can attend. Livestreaming of funerals is so recent that I don't know if there are clearcut rules about this. The crematorium should have upheld your wishes, but there is likely to be confusion about who is genuinely not invited, and who cannot come due to the Covid rules but is invited to attend 'virtually'. I believe that it is possible to set a livestream to be only accessible to specific persons.

What would bother me is not so much that she saw the funeral as that she kept a recording, making it possible for others in the future to watch the mourners at a time of grief.

Suing would, however, prolong and publicize the matter further, even if you were successful.

I think that writing a letter to the crematorium to express your concerns might be appropriate, and might make them more careful on future occasions.

Thisismytimetoshine · 19/09/2020 13:57

If she'd turned up in person you would not have been able to exclude her, whatever his dying wishes (was that really the only thought in his head during his last days??)
Don't take action against them, it's pathetic and ludicrous.

DontDribbleOnTheCarpet · 19/09/2020 13:57

I understand completely why you are angry. I would feel very exposed if I thought that a private, painful thing like a family funeral was being streamed and I hadn't known at the time. I think I would behave very differently if I was aware of the live-streaming to how I would if I thought the ceremony was private.

It would probably be very helpful to talk it through with the funeral director. There is nothing they can do now, really, except delete any video files and make sure you are not billed for it (paying for something you expressly refused would be very galling).

Before you discuss it with anyone though, make really sure that your husband didn't agree to it. Is the ex-wife his mother? Could he have been pressured or manipulated into feeling sorry for her and agreeing to it?

Jessbow · 19/09/2020 14:01

You might need to take it up with the FD, rather than the crem. its the FD that releases the code to the Livestream.

Sadly its now happened, and as people have said, its a public event so prob not a lot you could do anyway- and it wont change anything.

Brace yourself because in the fullness of time, the ex can avail herself of a copy of his death cert, and his will. its just the way things are.

Somethings are just not worth getting yourself into a twizzle for.

GreenTiles22 · 19/09/2020 14:02

I'm sorry for your loss OP. sounds like the ex wife was throwing her weight around. I've been in a similar situation as my MIL called the hospital her ex-husband was at and used her married name to gain access to him. He was dying and they didn't have a good relationship, but SHE wanted to see him. He hated her and had been happily married to another woman for 20 years. It cause so much distress to so many family members. She also found out the funeral details and turned up (unwanted) and made loud remarks about her 'fond memories' of their marriage and being his first wife. Just so disrespectful to his entire family.

I do understand you are upset but I think you'll just have to come to terms with what's done and move on.

TitsOutForHarambe · 19/09/2020 14:03

Go and speak to a lawyer.

Funerals are public and anyone who wanted to attend could have done so, whether your FIL wanted them there or not. So I'm not sure how this would affect a live stream... I wouldn't be happy if I were you, but I would definitely take legal advice before threatening to sue them.

PinkPosyPetals · 19/09/2020 14:03

I can’t find anything to say funerals are public by law.
By law, in the UK, you don’t need to hold a funeral at all,

Complain to thee funeral director, and their national body

All they can give you is an apology, I suspect, but you deserve this

I would be furious

C8H10N4O2 · 19/09/2020 14:03

By law weddings and funerals have to be available to the public and entry cannot be refused

Which law?

Whilst its customary for funerals to be deemed public the only legal requirement I could find was that if there is a funeral (its not compulsory) it has to be done using appropriate body disposal. No requirement to open it to the public, let alone livestream it.

Similarly with weddings, the public part related to the building in which the wedding was held rather than the wedding itself.

C8H10N4O2 · 19/09/2020 14:04

(this was for England & Wales)

Tomatoesneedtoripen · 19/09/2020 14:04

@OhCaptain

I think the people being all wide-eyed about him not wanting his ex-wife there should pipe down.

You don't know OP, you don't know the deceased, and you don't know his ex. So what if they "shared a history"? You don't know his reasons for not wanting her in attendance.

So the judgement and slight sneering is a bit much.

i doubt anyone is sneering, i was not sneering

my dm said that at a funeral a person would have turned in his grave if he had none such and such was there... but we didnt get worked up about it
each to their own,
if she felt she wanted to pay her respects that is what she was attempting to do

Kazakaren · 19/09/2020 14:05

If she didn't arrange the funeral she shouldn't have been able to do that without permission from the person arranging it. I would be extremely pissed off that the crem had done that and not even made you aware, and that there was a live stream, that was including the people at the funeral, without their knowledge.

AlternativePerspective · 19/09/2020 14:05

TBH I think you lost the argument when you made it about not wanting your children filmed.

Your children are being filmed every single day of their lives. Every time they walk into and out of a shop they will be on CCTV, if someone is walking down the street taking some kind of innocuous video your children could be filmed. Being filmed is a part of everyday life now, and while. You can choose not to put your children on social media you can’t prevent others from doing so.

As for your FIL’s funeral, you say that he hated his ex wife so much that his dying wish was for her not to be at the funeral. Yet you know her well enough and are close enough to her to know that she asked for the funeral to be live-streamed and has then been distributing it round social media?

Bearing in mind that his children are also her children, it’s entirely possible that they actually wanted their mum present at his funeral, or at the very least to be aware of it. Clearly she’s learned about it from somewhere, so I suspect that she’s not as hated by everyone else as she is by the deceased.

That level of bitterness is also a negative, and many people find other people’s bitterness as hard to deal with as the apparent wrongs committed by the other person.