Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Furlough holiday

429 replies

MrsQGinglass · 18/09/2020 11:47

I am furloughed still and work for a large international company. There are only a few off us still furloughed 2 in my office only.

I received an informing me that all holiday from last year that was carried over would have to be used in the October. I know the reason why it is cheaper for them to get part of the government to pay it.
My issue is that those that have not been furloughed are allowed to carry over their holiday for the next 2 years.
I really do not think this is fair as they are treating us differently.
I have contacted HR for clarification but they have not answered my emails.
Is this lawful.
AIBUto think that they are treating us unfairly.

OP posts:
kirinm · 18/09/2020 14:50

@Nosleeptilteenagers

I find it hard not to be bitter towards those that were furloughed. Totally due to my personal experience but it has been the toughest 6 months of my life wfh, homeschooling and caring for a toddler on my own (DH keyworker). Several of my furloughed friends spent the time updating their instagrams with their long leisurely walks and amazing family activities. I actually cried looking at this, I cried a lot actually! Which I think shows a distinct lack of empathy on their part as to how hard it was for some others.

Now job security/redundancy is becoming a major issue I do feel bad for the people affected but it’s not only furloughed employees that are going to be feeling the impact. I’ve worked throughout and my work has started consultations now. It’s not a given that you’ve got job security if you weren’t furloughed in the same way it’s not a given that you’ll be made redundant if you were.

I worked throughout and worked weekends because I also have a toddler. I was terrified of losing my job or being furloughed. Thankfully I wasn't (and have been told my job is safe for the next 6-12 months at least).

It was really hard. But I don't see what you gain from being bitter towards people who were furloughed. And if your DH was a keyworker, why didn't you have your child in childcare?

Nosleeptilteenagers · 18/09/2020 14:53

@kirinm keyworker childcare was for two keyworker parents, here anyway.

It’s purely related to my experience. Seeing close friends brag (and that’s what insta posts are!) about what a marvellous time they were having when I was crying myself to sleep because I was working all hours and absolutely exhausted. It has made me bitter. I’ll get over it!

nancy75 · 18/09/2020 14:53

@whirlwindwallaby

I have not had it easy I have lost over 20% of my salary funnily enough my bills did not go down. 20% after tax and NI? Did you not have any travel or other work related expenses?
Not everyone had travel costs, I’m still on furlough & only earning 80% I would normally walk to work & take a sandwich for lunch. No doubt my electricity usage has gone up, as will my heating bills if the weather turns & i’m still off work. Most of us left on furlough would rather be back at work, it’s driving me up the wall being stuck at home.
kirinm · 18/09/2020 14:57

[quote Nosleeptilteenagers]@kirinm keyworker childcare was for two keyworker parents, here anyway.

It’s purely related to my experience. Seeing close friends brag (and that’s what insta posts are!) about what a marvellous time they were having when I was crying myself to sleep because I was working all hours and absolutely exhausted. It has made me bitter. I’ll get over it![/quote]
The majority of people I know who were furloughed were genuinely worried they wouldn't have a job to go back to. I don't think your friends are indicative of furloughed people generally - unless my experience is unusual.

Original poster
MrsQGinglass · 18/09/2020 14:57

@kirinm

God the people on here who seem totally bitter that they didn't get furloughed. Covid really has brought out the arsehole in people, hasn't it.

OP - I wasn't furloughed thankfully - it was something I dreaded happening. But we are being asked to use 40% of our holiday up before the end of this month. That is primarily because so many people didn't take holiday during lockdown that work now face 1500 people trying to use their holiday in a 6 month period. The business won't be able to cope with that.

If my company had asked everyone it would not be an issue:

Perhaps people should read the holiday was not from last year but the holiday period during furlough.

OP posts:
ErinBrockovich · 18/09/2020 14:58

@GreenTiles22 I love that graphic.

OP YABU. I know many people being asked to take a proportion of their AL before returning from Furlough. It’s a business decision. They can decide not to apply the request to the people who were not furloughed because, well, they weren’t furloughed.
If they were asking only some of the people furloughed to take their AL then you may have a point.

In your shoes I’d take the leave and try and get some sort of holiday.
The last thing I would be doing is complaining to HR that they haven’t imposed this policy on the people who have been working throughout.

Original poster
MrsQGinglass · 18/09/2020 14:59

@ajandjjmum

Some people............

It's shit for everyone, but staying at home while being paid 80% of your salary - or £2,500 a month - is certainly not the shittiest position that people have found themselves in.

I'm pissed off that having built a business and paid masses of taxes over the last 30 years, I have not had one penny from any Govt. source, as my pay is through dividends. Not happy about it - particularly as I've been writing out cheques for HMRC during lockdown - but accept that in the circumstances, the Govt. have tried to be fair with the help they have given. There will always be those taking the piss.

You have paid yourself dividends to save on tax, can't have it both ways as I am being told.
OP posts:
Spidey66 · 18/09/2020 15:02

I think you're cheeky to be honest, you've been off for 6 months and you're asking for annual leave on top!

I'm am CPN who would love to have been furloughs, instead I spent lockdown going round the streets of Hackney administering injections to people . Not random people brw, only those prescribed them. Due to staff shielding, I had to cancel annual leave.

RaspberryToupee · 18/09/2020 15:06

@MrsQGinglass

It is funny how everyone is attacking the furloughed employee, if people are so busy at work take it up with your employer and ask for those remaining on furlough to come back to work. Those on furlough did not ask to be furloughed I would have rather been made redundant, than hanging on for a job I may not return to. Would you think the same about someone wanting their holiday entitlement if they were sick?
People aren’t attacking the furloughed employee. Get a grip. You asked if it was legal and or fair. People answered. You don’t like the answer.

The simple fact is you’re furloughed and therefore presumably your job is at risk. Taking your holiday at later point puts financial pressure on your company and therefore threatens your job security.

Everyone has been disadvantaged some way. You aren’t being singled out.

DH’s work furloughed some of their workforce. Those who weren’t furloughed had a 20% pay cut. The furloughed staff were told to use their annual leave quarterly as it accrued. The quiet departments were given no flexibility in taking their annual leave. Any annual leave taken by furloughed staff was topped up to 100% of their wages, as is legal. While the non-furloughed staff were still working on 80%. DH was doing 12/13 hour days for 20% less pay and his department made a special argument that they shouldn’t have to use their annual leave quarterly as it was their busy period. His work agreed but his still has to use his annual leave and cannot carry any forward. So some of the workforce have made to take annual leave and had two weeks at full pay, he could use in the next two quarters but didn’t get two weeks at full pay. He’s not bitching and moaning because he’s happy he’s got a job. He lost out on the pay side but has a little bit more flexibility in his holiday taking. However, one of his furloughed colleagues complaining that he gets more flexibility than them is ridiculous as they got holiday at full pay when he didn’t.

Also, everyone is in the same boat that they’ve got holiday and nothing to do.

Toddlerteaplease · 18/09/2020 15:07

You've been paid to sit in your bum for 6 months. Not unreasonable that those who worked should be given leeway with their Annual leave. I know it wasn't your choice but I think you should just put up with it.

kirinm · 18/09/2020 15:08

@Spidey66

I think you're cheeky to be honest, you've been off for 6 months and you're asking for annual leave on top!

I'm am CPN who would love to have been furloughs, instead I spent lockdown going round the streets of Hackney administering injections to people . Not random people brw, only those prescribed them. Due to staff shielding, I had to cancel annual leave.

She's not asking for annual leave. She's accrued annual leave legally.
Cassilis · 18/09/2020 15:09

@kirinm yep and she legally needs to use it October

ajandjjmum · 18/09/2020 15:09

You have paid yourself dividends to save on tax, can't have it both ways as I am being told.

That used to be the case but is no longer.

Ragwort · 18/09/2020 15:10

It's not been easy for most people, I was furloughed (& did not enjoy it) and had to take my annual leave (pro rata) during the time I was on furlough, fair enough, I am back at work now, many colleagues aren't and redundancies are looming.

My DH has to WFH, he had to have a 20% pay cut and pick up all the work of the furloughed colleagues - no point moaning about 'unfairness'... again, there have been redundancies at his place of work, fortunately he kept his job.

Havaiana · 18/09/2020 15:10

@ajandjjmum

That must have been touch, I assume your dividends reduced during CV19?

kirinm · 18/09/2020 15:11

[quote Cassilis]@kirinm yep and she legally needs to use it October[/quote]
I actually don't have any issue with being asked to use holiday - my company has asked me to do the same. I do have a problem with the bitterness aimed at those on furlough.

snappycamper · 18/09/2020 15:11

I love threads where the OP asks if they are unreasonable, the whole of Mumsnet tells them they are, and they spend hours insisting that the whole of Mumsnet is wrongConfused

OverTheRubicon · 18/09/2020 15:11

@MrsQGinglass that isn't fully fair. Some.self employed people paid dividends to save tax, but others did it because they were told to by employers - for example a lot of people in creative industries were asked by their contracting companies to incorporate, due to concerns around IR35. These people are not high-earning tax dodgers, and now they are left with pennies and Jo work coming in.

Even others that did go with this structure, the lower tax was often offset by lack of other benefits. Even someone paying themselves £50k in primarily dividends and sounding very well paid (at least, outside London) can end up worse off than someone in a public service job on £33k but with a final salary pension, paid sick leave, job security and redundancy rights etc.

CD28 · 18/09/2020 15:11

I don't agree with commenters saying 'you're sat at home on furlogh'. It has been detrimental to my mental health these past 6 months and I so would have rather been at work. I have now been made redundant at 27 weeks pregnant after being on furlogh all this time. We haven't been on 'holiday'. We've been feeling useless and helpless!

Pumpkinnose · 18/09/2020 15:12

In your shoes I’d been exceptionally glad the furlough scheme existed, fortunate I have a job and being keeping my mouth shut. Regardless of legal protections//arguments, someone who cannot see the bigger picture but it complaining to HR will be down as a difficult employee and first on the redundancy list.

Palavah · 18/09/2020 15:13

@RedskyAtnight

My company does not allow annual leave to be carried over unless you can show that there is a business reason why you could not take it during the past year.

So some employees (those who can show a business reason) are allowed to carry holiday over, but no one else is. No one thinks this is unfair.
Would it help you, OP, to think of it more like that, rather than furloughed vs non-furloughed?

Yep. What would be your valid business reason for carrying your holiday, OP?
BanalAnal · 18/09/2020 15:13

So furlough runs to end Oct? ..., .

They want to pay you your holiday in October- at full pay!?!

I'd be seriously worried about redundancy following that.

They probably forcing you to take it so they don't have to pay it out as part of your package..... take it in October they only have to meet 20%

Cassilis · 18/09/2020 15:14

@kirinm I think most sensible people realise furlough is not the fault of the furloughed employee, but given the number of women on MN who have juggled WFH and childcare I struggle to sympathise with OP on the annual leave issue.

ajandjjmum · 18/09/2020 15:14

[quote Havaiana]@ajandjjmum

That must have been touch, I assume your dividends reduced during CV19?[/quote]
They are non-existent! A very handy tax rebate has helped, but we've had no income for six months.

yevans · 18/09/2020 15:14

DH was furloughed for a few months and were extremely grateful for it as it meant the company were trying to save his job essentially. He then came off it but unfortunately was made redundant a few weeks later. Holiday is the least of your worries. Be grateful for still having a job due to furlough, if you don't like their terms, find a new job. End of. I really don't see what your problem is.