Furlough holiday

[MrsQGinglass]

I am furloughed still and work for a large international company. There are only a few off us still furloughed 2 in my office only.

I received an informing me that all holiday from last year that was carried over would have to be used in the October. I know the reason why it is cheaper for them to get part of the government to pay it.
My issue is that those that have not been furloughed are allowed to carry over their holiday for the next 2 years.
I really do not think this is fair as they are treating us differently.
I have contacted HR for clarification but they have not answered my emails.
Is this lawful.
AIBUto think that they are treating us unfairly.

In employment law you have to treat all employees the same!

so they should have put EVERYONE on furlough, destroy the business and you ALL end up redundant? Are you for real?

Your colleagues must have worked their butts off to salvage and pay for your long holiday at home, you should be grateful! I can't believe you are STILL in furlough, had the entire summer and September off and dare complaining that you can't carry even MORE time off.

Please do complain. I am sure your manager will be delighted to have an easier decision to make when redundancies start.

I say this as someone who is

Furloughed
Single parent, this is my only income
No my expenses didn’t go down as I’ve always worked from home, therefore outgoings remained the same

I have had to ‘use’ my annual leave at intervals whilst on Furlough and I have no issues with it at all! I am just so, so relieved to still have a job!

Please OP give your head a wobble and realise how ridiculous you are being!!!

@whirlwindwallaby

I have not had it easy I have lost over 20% of my salary funnily enough my bills did not go down. 20% after tax and NI? Did you not have any travel or other work related expenses?

Yes I have lost more than 20%, the max they pay is £2500.

YABU.

Fair does not necessarily mean equal. And they have to treat you all fairly, not equally.

Surely if you take the holiday, your employer pays you the full 100% of your salary for that 2 weeks? I thought that was the benefit of taking your holiday while on furlough?

Try being on the other side, I've not had even a days holiday in the last 6 months. I've been covering for my furloughed colleagues. To keep the company going and everyone employed.

How do you think it feels knowing my colleagues are getting 80% for sitting on their bottoms and STILL ACCRUING THE SAME HOLIDAY AS ME?? Not even 80% of their holiday....

So they've had months off, come back, and by December, they'll have to take another 4 weeks holiday. If they get priority of date choices over me I won't be happy!

So if we're asking what's fair - it goes 2 ways.

I would be delighted to have received £2500 for doing nothing.

Yes you have to treat people equally at work!

This isn’t the law, OP. You have to treat people fairly, but that doesn’t mean equally. Fair treatment might mean some employees get offered something others aren’t, based on their circumstances.

In this case, non-furloughed employees are being given the opportunity to carry over leave because they have had less opportunity to take that leave as a result of working than furloughed employees did. It’s not an equal arrangement, but it is a fair one.

I am sorry but why should someone that didn't ask to be furloughed, that has no job security be not allowed to carry over my holiday which I had cancelled by my company.
I wish my furlough had been all sweetness and light but believe me my mental health, financial security have been shot to pieces.
@SantaClaritaDiet your suggestion is unlawful they can't use your grievances against you.

You have to choose your battles.

I was furloughed from March until August, I had 2 weeks of holiday booked in that time. I have been allowed to carry one of those weeks over to next year but had to take the other as holiday and the company topped up my 80% to 100% for that week. I think that's fair and I'm just glad to have a job still.

@Florencex

I would be delighted to have received £2500 for doing nothing.

Me too. That's almost double what I make. Single parent and I've worked full time throughout.

You're getting the max amount of furlough, have reduced outgoings from not going to work and you want all your holidays on top of that?

Up to you if you want to complain about it, but as someone else said, you'll be first out the door if they make redundancies. You don't need the holiday, you've had 6 months off. You still have a job, you probably won't if you complain as it makes you look horrible.

I also doubt your colleagues had their normal work load, they'll be doing a lot more.

@TeddyDahlia

Yes you have to treat people equally at work!

This isn’t the law, OP. You have to treat people fairly, but that doesn’t mean equally. Fair treatment might mean some employees get offered something others aren’t, based on their circumstances.

In this case, non-furloughed employees are being given the opportunity to carry over leave because they have had less opportunity to take that leave as a result of working than furloughed employees did. It’s not an equal arrangement, but it is a fair one.

Those that have worked have been allowed to take their holiday as planned, only 10% were furloughed across the company and my job can only be done in the office.

I am sorry but why should someone that didn't ask to be furloughed, that has no job security be not allowed to carry over my holiday which I had cancelled by my company.

Because you've just had six months off work, paid. If you have annual leave to use, why on earth shouldn't you have to use it? Do you think you should get six months off, then have loads of holiday to use on top?

Don't be silly.

Plenty of people have no financial security right now. Another lockdown would send the company I work for under. If you really have no financial security I'd have thought annual leave would be the least of your concerns, it is mine!

@Florencex

I would be delighted to have received £2500 for doing nothing.

Hahaha I did not make up the rules, I would love to be at work, I would love to have been working. I can see that you have not been furloughed and you have no idea what it is like.

Tbh Think this post is more about having a moan about being furloughed vs colleagues. Understandable

The holiday point doesn't show you in a good light despite you being fully entitled to be annoyed at having been furloughed

funnily enough my bills did not go down

Presumably you are saving on commuting costs, fuel in the car, lunches whilst at work
You would also have been able to take a 3 month mortgage holiday which you could have extended with most banks....

I was both furloughed and then came back early when most of my colleagues stayed on it.
100% furlough is easier and less stressful than being back at work. Cheaper too

As people have said your employers are legally right but I will say I get why this is annoying and even disastrous for some people eg if you were specifically saving holiday for school breaks to avoid expensive childcare which I always did when I was working. OP may have received the max furlough amount but if they make far more than this normally then it's a bit irrelevant because it's not enough for their outgoings. Don't worry OP, every thread like this pulls in the 'just be grateful for any scraps you receive' type. I hope they never complain they are hungry because don't they know there are children starving in some parts of the world?!

@vanillandhoney

I am sorry but why should someone that didn't ask to be furloughed, that has no job security be not allowed to carry over my holiday which I had cancelled by my company.

Because you've just had six months off work, paid. If you have annual leave to use, why on earth shouldn't you have to use it? Do you think you should get six months off, then have loads of holiday to use on top?

Don't be silly.

We were not allowed to take the holiday, our company policy means that when furloughed we could not take on other work.

I honestly sympathise with anyone who has been furloughed.

But seriously OP, you're not listening to posters on this thread. You're not acknowledging that it's been hard for non furloughed too. You're not understanding that you're being treated fairly even if that's not equal.

You've had a tough time through furlough. I get it. But maybe have another think about whether your argument is fair or reasonable.

It's been shit for people who've worked throughout too. For a whole myriad of reasons. Don't begrudge your colleagues their holiday arrangements, it won't make them feel kindly or generous to you.

MrsQGinglass
common sense is not unlawful.

If your role was clearly not essential as you are STILL on furlough in September, it's only a small step away from being redundant entirely.

People who dare complaining about their holidays whilst spending months chilling out at home are top of the list, because it really wouldn't be FAIR not to reward team players and assets to the company.

@MrsQGinglass

I am sorry but why should someone that didn't ask to be furloughed, that has no job security be not allowed to carry over my holiday which I had cancelled by my company. I wish my furlough had been all sweetness and light but believe me my mental health, financial security have been shot to pieces. *@SantaClaritaDiet* your suggestion is unlawful they can't use your grievances against you.

This has already been answered. Employers are entitled to tell employees that they need to take annual leave, they can do this at will and indiscriminately if it suits the business needs. So long as they gave you notice, there is no basis for a grievance.

You might not have asked to have been furloughed but you were, most people would think this better than being made redundant which was the alternative.

You cannot truly think you have been hard done by here, if you really do then you have a breathtaking inability to emphasise with other people (e.g. the ones that kept the company running) or see the bigger picture (e.g. that your organisation has been struggling to keep going and needs understanding from employees).

I’m really sorry, but there is a very good chance that you will be made redundant at the end of the furlough scheme. If they haven’t needed you for the last 6 months they will manage without you in November. And that’s especially the case since you are reasonably highly paid (you mentioned that 80% of your full salary would be more than £2,500). By making you take holiday on furlough (which they are entirely entitled to do), they will not have to pay holiday pay on redundancy. But you are very lucky they have not already announced your redundancy to coincide with the end of the furlough period. If you have a month’s notice they may still do this, in which case you don’t want to be seen to be being unreasonable about the holiday.

You're not coming across very well OP. I was not furloughed but my husband was so I know how hard it has been, especially with a big drop in income, childcare, effects on mental health etc . It is not been easy.

But, I say this with empathy, you need to decide what's important to you. Why is this bothering you so much? You can't work at the moment and your employer is telling you to take your annual leave for which you will receive full pay. What is wrong with that?

If it bothers you because other (non furloughed) staff can carry over their holidays and you can't, then you need to accept you are in different situations and different rules will be applied.

If you had been one of the employees who HAD to keep working in the conditions we all know, you would be the first one to complain about their holiday, I can guarantee you that...

It's unbelievable to be that entitled. And wrong.