Furlough holiday

[MrsQGinglass]

I am furloughed still and work for a large international company. There are only a few off us still furloughed 2 in my office only.

I received an informing me that all holiday from last year that was carried over would have to be used in the October. I know the reason why it is cheaper for them to get part of the government to pay it.
My issue is that those that have not been furloughed are allowed to carry over their holiday for the next 2 years.
I really do not think this is fair as they are treating us differently.
I have contacted HR for clarification but they have not answered my emails.
Is this lawful.
AIBUto think that they are treating us unfairly.

@myBumJuiceSmellsLikeRoses

Surely if you take the holiday, your employer pays you the full 100% of your salary for that 2 weeks? I thought that was the benefit of taking your holiday while on furlough?

Try being on the other side, I've not had even a days holiday in the last 6 months. I've been covering for my furloughed colleagues. To keep the company going and everyone employed.

How do you think it feels knowing my colleagues are getting 80% for sitting on their bottoms and STILL ACCRUING THE SAME HOLIDAY AS ME?? Not even 80% of their holiday....

So they've had months off, come back, and by December, they'll have to take another 4 weeks holiday. If they get priority of date choices over me I won't be happy!

So if we're asking what's fair - it goes 2 ways.

Sorry but if you've been working flat out covering your furloughed colleagues' work then your company has pulled a fast one on you. The reason people have been furloughed is because their work has dried up. You should be doing just your own work, not your colleagues'.

In terms of OP, I was furloughed for four months and had to take holidays while on furlough. I never complained because I couldn't see another way for the company to do it. In fact I also have had to take some days unpaid - which mean I still have tons of AL to take before the end of the year. I think they should have made me take off more AL on furlough! So many of us have tons of holidays left, furloughed and non-furloughed. I don't know how they're going to cope near christmas.

You're missing one crucial point OP - it would be unlawful for them to let you carry over all that holiday. They are not allowed to do it.

The only circumstances under which the additional carrying over for up to two years is permitted is if the individual in question has not been able to take their annual leave because of coronavirus reasons. This will normally be because they've been working and exceptionally busy.

This simply does not apply to you. It is perfectly possible for you to take the holiday, therefore that is what they must make you do. You would just prefer not to do that.

I have furloughed colleagues with this attiude also. In the emantime the rest of us have been working like crazy- because oddly enough furloughing people does not mean that their jobs do not get done- it means that their work has to be done by the ones still working on top of their regular work. I only started to have a complete weekend off in September. no overtime for me. No furlough pay. No sitting around at home. No chance to take any of my holiday- i have 16 working days left and we were told that we cannot carry over any more than the usual 2 days, yet I went through my timetable with my colleagues adn we literally cannot see when it is possible to take a holiday. Yet we have colleagues who are bitching about being rbought BACK from furlough incouding one colleague who has been asked to return to work in a different office that is nio more than a 7 minute drive from the current one and she is actually asking for petrol money to cover the difference. She complained about having to take holiday while furloughed too.

You have been very fortunate. I would think about that for a bit before thinking you are hard done by.

I was furloughed from April to July, have been back in since the beginning of September. I'm going to be honest OP, I'd be embarassed to be bitching about being made to take my holiday if I were you. I was a bit 'seriously?!' that I was still accruing holiday whilst furloughed, and felt a bit uneasy about it.

I was on 80% pay too, but I can at least see that 80% pay for being at home vs 100% pay and having to work full time isn't the shitty end of the stick in this scenario!

WHich bit off

You have been off work for months, regardless of if you wanted to be or not, you have. And paid

Your colleagues have been working full time, required to keep the business going and probably not allowed all their time off

Don’t you understand? You can therefore take part of your accrued holiday now, before you start again, that way there is less for you to take and kore time to diver those colleagues who have not been able to take holiday and now need it. The fact that it’s been extended so they can take it over two years is irrelevant. They have not all been able to take it now, you can

Kore time to diver should read more time to cover

You'll whinge your way into redundancy if you aren't careful,
Just take the holiday and be thankful you have a job still. For now.

YABVU and ignorant. Of course this is lawful, and it makes perfect business sense.

My company are using The furlough scheme for our redundancy notice period and holidays. I had been there 16 years, and so had 12 weeks notice (all paid by the government) and we were forced to take any leave owing during that period. I thought the furlough scheme was to help retain jobs? The sickening thing is, the company owner is one of the richest men in the country, on the Times rich list, worth £1.2 billion. He has treated his staff dreadfully during the whole process. I hope karma visits his business.

Oh for goodness sake, suck it up. If you have a job to go back to you are extremely fortunate. I despair at attitudes like this.

Some people............

It's shit for everyone, but staying at home while being paid 80% of your salary - or £2,500 a month - is certainly not the shittiest position that people have found themselves in.

I'm pissed off that having built a business and paid masses of taxes over the last 30 years, I have not had one penny from any Govt. source, as my pay is through dividends. Not happy about it - particularly as I've been writing out cheques for HMRC during lockdown - but accept that in the circumstances, the Govt. have tried to be fair with the help they have given. There will always be those taking the piss.

As countless others have said, this is perfectly legal, and makes sense- employers can’t afford to have lots of holiday in the future. I’m being flexible at the moment, because I want my employer to survive all this. You have had a prolonged period off- for your own sake, don’t be ‘that person’ who makes a complaint about holiday after being away for months. Think about the context your complaint will be received in too- it’s likely that your HR department and manager will be very very busy at the moment trying to manage all this- would a complaint of this nature by someone who is being paid to stay home go down well? They’re only human and it is likely to affect how you are perceived.

In your position, and especially if redundancy is possible, I would be going out of your way to accommodate them. Don’t choose this hill to die on, OP. Not worth it when you consider what else is at stake.

We were not allowed to take the holiday, our company policy means that when furloughed we could not take on other work.

What would you have taken holiday from, if you were not allowed to work?

The thing is, despite that you had a tough time being furloughed and losing pay, you were not working so therefore couldn't take holiday because you were, effectively, already on holiday. For months.

OK, you couldn't go anywhere much, but no one could.

It's a bad plan to get bent out of shape about this. What do you want to do with the 'carried over' holiday?

@MrsQGinglass

The only people left on Furlough are woman.

In employment law you have to treat all employees the same!

Don't try the sexism angle unles you are certain the difference is not job specific and the sex of the employees is incidental!

And yes, all that you are complaining about is legal and was covered, in some depth, during the various Covid daily briefings - yes, that long ago!

DH was furloughed in cycles, giving him and A N Other co worker half the time off, half time in work. He is now on flexible furlough, puts the word FURLOUGH in his time sheet for any day, half day he does not work. As does his co worker. DH is on holiday next week - not furloughed, though he easily could be if he arranged it with co worker - on holiday, as that is what he would have booked had covid not happened. The rest of his holiday is being moved across the next year or so, to be confirmed as business picks up (or does not). DH and that co worker have had remote assessment meetings with their line manager and received letters thanking them for their work during these hard times, reassuring them that the company values their contribution.

Another co worker has made disgruntled noises a) about the furlough sharing b) having to book holidays c) having to come back to work for one single day in the middle of a week d) filling out the new timesheets e) the lack of consistency, it's not fair etc

That co worker has been given early notice of redundancies.

Think though what it is you are complaning about!

We’ve all made sacrifices due to corona OP.
This is yours.
Keyworkers have been risking their health. Others have been ft wfh while looking after kids.
Oh and some people have been seriously ill or died or lost loved ones.

Oh come on, surely you can see this is fair? You can’t be accruing holiday while you were off and others were working (I know people can in some circumstances but this pandemic has had huge and unexpected effects on companies). Can you imagine how those who worked throughout would feel if the furloughed people then went off again on hols?

OP, have you considered that redundancy is a possibility? you mentioned job security earlier on, is this why you are so het up, are you deflecting where your real fear lies?

you have been so defensive and I get that its frustrating, maybe its childcare issues, maybe you had a holiday planned for next year, maybe you just dont like the idea of not having any holiday for a while, whatever it is you need to come to terms with the fact that COVID has fucked most people over in one way or another. its shit it really is but the company hasnt acted illegally. I'm sorry but there is nothing you can do, no matter how much you rage at the unfairness of it all.

If you're worried about job security why are you making a fuss about this to your employer? They are allowed to do this. Have you told them you really want to return to work ASAP?

This reminds me off the poor diddums who missed out on doing baby classes on mat leave and want it again. I mean ffs!

Sounds like there was a reason you were picked for furlough.

I bet you'd also back the longer maternity leave campaign.

It is funny how everyone is attacking the furloughed employee, if people are so busy at work take it up with your employer and ask for those remaining on furlough to come back to work.
Those on furlough did not ask to be furloughed I would have rather been made redundant, than hanging on for a job I may not return to.
Would you think the same about someone wanting their holiday entitlement if they were sick?

yeah the year has been crap. Crap crap. I was treating my parents who live abroad to a cruise in March. Did not happen. was meant to meet DH's cousins abroad in July. Did not happen. WFH full time while trying to home school 2 DCs was a nightmare, one of whom has SEN. meanwhile working like a madwoman. I have taken a philosophical apprach to be honest - it could have been much worse. But when my colleague bitched about having to take holiday as part of her furlough- i lost complete and total respect for her. That cannot be regained.

I'd be very careful, the fact that you were furloughed and not keep in means you weren't essential to the business.

Good god. I was furloughed for a lengthy period of time and been back in the business since June.

My company has already been through one round of redundancies, thousands of jobs gone.

We are all aware that any of us back who are working until we drop because we no longer have the same staffing levels are just as likely to be chosen for the next round of redundancies as those that are still on furlough.

What you need to remember is that you are now thought of more than ever in terms of financial productivity, so I'd quit moaning if I were you. Even though an employer can't make you redundant because of your petty griping, you can bet your bottom dollar it'll be worked in somehow.

OP what is it specifically that you have an issue with?

Is it that you don't think it is fair - as posters have pointed out, it is definitely legal, and most believe it to be 'fair', even if you leave out the argument about who had it better, furloughed or workers.

Or were you counting on that leave for something? Did you need it for a specific time and now can't have that? I could understand frustration if you've had plans mucked up and venting is fine, but you can't do it to your employer, because they haven't done anything wrong.