To set MiL Straight?

[Pregernaught]

NC’d.

I’m 19 weeks pregnant with the first grandchild on both sides, so naturally everyone is super excited and it’s all very lovely.

Yesterday, MiL let slip that she’s bought a next to me crib and a load of newborn baby stuff ‘for her house’ for when the baby arrives ... I quite pointedly said ‘oh that won’t be needed MiL, baby won’t be staying overnight with you until they’re too old to use a next to me, he/she will be in their own room by then’

She was taken aback and said I’d need a night off on the first few weeks at least. I said baby will be breast fed until 6 months at least hopefully so whether I want a night off or not, it won’t be happening. I also said that even if I couldn’t breast feed for any reason, I wouldn’t want baby away from me that early anyway.

She then got upset and said she would expect me to express so she could take her grandchild while they’re still a baby to have overnight and I’m cruel for not allowing this. DH stepped in at this point and said we wouldn’t be changing our plans to suit MiL, and he’d be very sad if she couldn’t accept that and made it difficult for us to see her when baby was born. She dropped it After he said that.

She’s also said some other weird stuff like weaning the baby from 3 months is normal, she doesn’t like the idea of breastfeeding and something about giving newborns water as well as milk? Pretty sure that’s not right? It’s making me really nervous about leaving baby with her at all until he or she is a bit more robust!

MiL has a sister who has a grandchild already, but she was born when her mum was only 16 and living at home, so naturally MiL’s sister was very involved from the start. DH and I are in our 30’s, totally independent, mortgage, the lot so it’s a totally different circumstance. I have a feeling MiL is comparing notes and wants to be as involved as her sister was, which obviously just won’t be happening.

I just want to check I’m not being cruel or unreasonable to lay boundaries with someone who is usually lovely and will absolutely dote on this kid?

@Pregernaught

Also can someone confirm I’m not going mad on the water thing, newborns don’t have water right?

Tiny babies can dehydrate very quickly . So in very hot weather, or if they are running a temperature, it can be a good idea to keep them topped up with a small drink of cooled boiled water. The same if a baby is not feeding well for any reason (unwell, too hot, teething etc).

4-6 months was considered ideal to begin complementary feeding for term infants in 1994, and changed to 6 months in 2007.

I was told 6 months in 2004, and was advised in 2000 that the then 4 months guidance was under consideration for revision.

@TenDays that is really weird advice. It’s simultaneously really weak-willed and manipulative. I don’t think it’s in anyone’s interests for OP to play psychological games instead of just being polite and honest like she has been.

The baby isn’t even born yet, OP doesn’t need weaning advice 😬

@MulticolourMophead

4-6 months was considered ideal to begin complementary feeding for term infants in 1994, and changed to 6 months in 2007.

I was told 6 months in 2004, and was advised in 2000 that the then 4 months guidance was under consideration for revision.

Those figures were taken from here

You are already doing well as parents: rule number 1, Mum and Dad stick together and back each other up :).

Things change in every generation. Be aware that suggesting that new things might be better, is a tacit criticism of those who did things differently in the past. Just be tactful as you go - it is a sensitive subject.

I haven't heard of a grandmothers' book - but it would be useful to pass on anything you are reading.

Your Mum sounds so perfectly willing to adapt and to listen to you.

MIL might find it easier if she learns the stuff herself (from your books/leaflets) and can then tell you :)

[quote Pregernaught]@ILikeTrains that’s so helpful to read. This is another thing that worries me, MiL doesn’t like the idea of breastfeeding at all, she thinks it’s bollocks that it’s better than formula/ just the same as cows milk and as such she has no concept of supply/ demand and how it all works. Obviously I’m more than capable of making my own decision on that but I don’t have the experience to know the reasons why I’ll need to feed from the breast and not express all the time etc. Another thing she said not long ago is it’s not fair on DH for me to breastfeed because he won’t be able to bond. This really worries me.[/quote]
I breast fed both of mine but my second absolutely refused to take milk from a bottle at all, even my own expressed milk. We tried a few different shaped teats but she just wouldn't have it, screamed the place down until she got the boob. So I couldn't have had a night away or express milk for my other half to feed her anyway even if I'd wanted to!

Sometimes it's just taken out of our hands so there's no point in making plans or worrying about it until it happens really.

Perhaps tell MIL that your mum is happy to help you by staying at yours and doing things for you rather than taking the baby and you'd be more than happy for her to do the same if she wants to be involved?

@iwantmyownicecreamvan I think advice was extremely variable. My mother was breastfed on demand. My father was weaned in the way that the OP describes that her MiL weaned her husband. It is possible that she was following her own mother's advice and not a health visitor. That said, the health visitor told my mother to wean me on unsweetened cooking apple puree at 4 months and not to introduce anything else until I accepted that. My mother tried in vain and, unsurprisingly, I refused flat out and continued to breastfeed on demand for another couple of months before my mother decided to ignore the health visitor and do her own thing (thank goodness, because the health visitor's other little piece of advice was to give me full sugar ribena in a beaker).

I often see threads like this on here and I think perhaps in the past, mothers expected, and were given, a lot more hands on help with the baby, right from the beginning. I can see how that isn't compatible with breastfeeding or the "4th trimester" idea, but, from experience, I can also see how it must have seemed entirely logical (if you aren't troubled by those ideas) that an exhausted new mother needs to rest, which means the baby being taken away to be looked after by someone else. It's interesting as the expectation that it just can't all be on the new mother makes complete sense in its own way. The breastfeeding, late-weaning, child-centred mothers of the present are doing something much harder than many mothers did in the past.

Not only was advice variable but our internet age, most people got their advice anecdotally so whilst official advice night have changed in say 1980, those parents were parented in 1955 so would be getting advice from their parents based on their own experience. Miners don't change magically on the day new evidence is released.
Spend time on any new mom forum and you'll see plenty of people asking about baby rice in bottles from 3+ months because baby doesn't sleep through, missing up risks in the bottle, weaning from 4 months without medical advice

You're so not unreasonable. Everyone has different ideas of raising a child, and there are often many things you can choose to do that aren't right or wrong, but the point is, when it's YOUR child, it's YOUR opinion that matters.

My sister had a baby and our mum took her two nights a week almost right from the start. When my SIL had her first, nobody had an overnight until he was 2. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

And you often have to play it by ear when it comes to breastfeeding but you can absolutely feed for six months if you want to - assuming you have enough milk.

Don't allow this woman to take over. She's had her turn, it's yours now. But also don't be too proud to ask for help if you need it. She sounds a little over enthusiastic, but at the same time it's nice to have someone who would be willing to help - not everyone has that. But putting your foot down from the start with key things and decisions is important, for certain.

Don't worry OP. A father does not have to feed a baby to bond with it :) She is just reaching for excuses!

There are many other important skin-on-skin things that fathers can do with very new babies - bathing, nappy-changing, sleeping, carrying , playing .

(Nature designed just 1 of the partnership for babyfeeding and it seems to work out ok usually. I suppose, if it had been important to the human race, male-mammary glands could have developed... just think how different life would have been!)

It does sound like she's over excited. Wherever you can redirect that, the better - I'm all for being specific with parents and in laws about the help you actually need.

One thing that I found and is hopefully true for you - with your DH being on your side from the very start, you might find things easier in the future. MIL lives far away and turned up when DS was 6 weeks old. She'd been here for an hour and was trying to tell me what to do. I ignored her and went into the kitchen and while I was gone DH politely but firmly told her that I was DS' mother and that therefore I got to make the decisions. To be honest, I hadn't even been upset - was just rolling my eyes a bit in the kitchen - but his early intervention paved the way long term I think because it set the tone: She wasn't going to find an ally in her son if she tried to dictate how things should be done.

She has gone on to be a wonderful grandmother and while she still has things that annoy me, I honestly can't fault her overall. Plus my stress levels are low because I am 100% certain that I would win in any argument.

DS is 6.5 months and has not spent more than a couple of hours here and there apart from me since he was born. He was EBF.

It’s not weird or clingy or unusual. It’s actually exactly how it’s supposed to be. If you want you’d DC to spend a night with family, or you need them to then that’s a different situation but the one thing I’ve figured out about parenting so far Is that the ONLY opinions that matter in the first year of a child’s life are mum (dad if he’s involved), HV and GP.

My MIL has a nursery at her house, along with a pushchair and high chair (DS is eldest GC) but has been very upfront from the start that these are for when I go back to work as she will be very kindly providing 2 days a week childcare!

If we asked her to babysit so DH and I could go out, whether it be overnight or just the evening, I’m sure she would love to but she respects that DS and I just aren’t at the stage yet. She’s a pretty awesome MIL tbh (compared to what I see on here) always happy to help and offer but respectful and not pushy!

@MulticolourMophead

Oil up a finger and stick it in their bum??

This sounds horrendous.. Who would do that?
People have some strange ideas.

I have vague recollections I heard this in relation to constipation. Never did this myself, DS had issues, and was prescribed medication.

HV did it due to no movement for about 2 weeks. Turned out there wasn't a problem - she was just happy on breastmilk and didn't need a poo!

I skipped a few pages so this may have been addressed but I wouldn't go down the route of these "baby will never stay overnight with you" rules just yet. You have no idea how life is going to turn out. When my daughter was 3 months old my Dad had a major operation. I travelled to the hospital to see him leaving baby at home with her Dad. It was a day trip. About 2 and a half hours by coach. I didn't get home until late night. If it had been slightly further away I may have stayed overnight. I missed my baby so much that day. Every person I saw pushing a pram gave me a little sad moment.
You don't know what might crop up in life. Rather than saying "that will never happen" say "you know we will think about that when the time comes". You might find that actually you do need a 'night off' for any of 101 reasons. You may need mil support. Don't alienate her before baby is even born because she might not then be there for you when you do need support.

I agree it’s important to keep the peace and not to ramp up hostilities. Just the MN “tinkly laugh” and vague, “We’ll see, mil” before a swift change of subject.

I think it’s important that we recognise that child-rearing advice changes all the time .I’m sure I snorted with derision at some of dm’s advice, but no doubt my dc at some point in the future will be scoffing at how they were treated as babies. Perhaps, I don’t know, daily bathing will be seen as hugely problematic and our dcs will be horrified at our foolhardiness.

OP, I haven't been able to read TFT, so I do apologise if I'm repeating anything that's been said, but just to address a couple of your most recent questions..... There are many wonderful ways for partners to bond with baby when the mother is breastfeeding. The sleepy cuddles after a feed are amazing, bathing baby, changing nappies, carrying baby in a sling, talking or singing to baby. I never understand why anyone would think they miss out on bonding simply because they are unable to do the feeding.
As for expressing, many women don't find it easy. Babies are vastly more effective at getting the milk out than a pump. It can cause anxiety sometimes for women who struggle to pump, and thus falsely believe they have a low supply. Even if you are able to express plenty of milk, it is time consuming and demanding and many women simply don't went to add to the many hours they spend breastfeeding.
Good luck and congratulations!

Congratulations on your pregnancy after so many losses. Wishing you all the best of luck with the rest of your pregnancy.

It sounds like your MIL is a bit overexcited, it's great your husband is on your side.

The advice does change, even after a few years so you can imagine how out of date it is after 30 years! It also varies from HV to HV etc on some matters.

Good on you OP- standing up for your baby (and yourself)!!!!!
Water isn't needed- breast milk is all the baby needs.
Feeding is up to you- not your MIL.

How wrong to call you cruel!! That isn't fair.
Agree there are many ways for dads to bond without the feeding.

You did well to nip things in the bud with your MIL. Otherwise it just gets worse, as I can testify. It almost spoiled my early days with my newborn
due to so much interference
(low contact now}

YANBU, it sounds like you handled it really well.

I mean don't discount it completely as you might end up not breastfeeding for long and you might be in desperate need of a night off, my DS is big and fit in his Snuz Pod until he was 7 months

But YANBU. Set those boundaries now. She doesn't sound unlike my MIL although she is at least not crazy enough to buy a next2me. The advice on weaning, water etc she's giving you is what the advice would've been when your DH was a baby most probably, but things change.

Your baby will bond just fine with your DH If he does all the normal things people do with a baby - cuddle, bathe, dress, change, walk, talk to etc.
He does NOT need to feed baby to bond with them.
Your MIL absolutely does NOT need to have a side-by-side crib, nor to have baby overnight (!!!) while one is still needed.

YANBU to have said what you said. You were neither OTT nor "cruel" and not even unkind. Your MIL has totally unrealistic expectations.

My MIL came to stay with us just prior to DS1's EDD (which turned out to be 2 weeks later cos he didn't want to come out) and was there for 4weeks after his birth ( we were in the UK, she was in Australia, it was a good plan). She would take him for short times to allow me a little rest, but never for longer than I was happy with.

He did get cooled boiled water occasionally, when I had a hospital appt to attend that could take over an hour (wait times) - but other than that he was EBF. Up until the time he had an operation at 7w, and I had to express or they would have burst! (Not really, but it can feel like that) But I wasn't good at expressing either, it took a long while to get as much milk out as the baby could get out. Useful for emergencies but not a daily occurrence, that's for sure!

Your MIL may be "over-excited" but her expectations are ridiculous. Maybe she should talk to a few other new grans of her acquaintance to see how much so!

Do not apologise. Do not back down. Stay calm and polite when she makes these OTT suggestions and refute them firmly but kindly.

My own mother attempted breastfeeding with me but gave up after 3 days, and my sister thought it was a disgusting thing to do - didn't stop me BFing both DSs through to 2 years. You do what YOU want to do (if you can, and I hope you can)

YANBU. You must set your boundaries - be polite and friendly about it unless she really pushes. Obviously you’ll want to follow current guidance rather than what she recommends so just say something like “oh, the NHS / health visitor says to do it this way so that’s how I’m doing it” with a smile. My baby is 9 months and hasn’t stayed anywhere else overnight and won’t be for the foreseeable future.

Also, if possible get your husband to tell her what you’ve decided about things as they come up so she can’t blame you.

OP I've read some more of your comments and she really does sound like she's from the same school as my MIL (although my own MIL less crazy and she would never have cried or called us cruel like that).

I'm just going to give some advice I wish I could've told myself first time round:

1. Re visits in the early days, set boundaries, and do it now, although I guess covid might be on your side here.

My DS1 was the first grandchild and my MIL, FIL and SIL turned up every single day when he was first born, including early ish (9-10am) on the first morning we were at home. They just wanted cuddles, they didn't do anything to help. I was 27, a new mum, completely shell shocked, exhausted after no sleep for 3 days (long labour), battered and bruised, struggling to BF and questioning my sanity. I didn't know what I was doing and having them there made everything so much worse, they made it very clear how uncomfortable they were with me BF (MIL FF all of her kids from birth) and bearing in mind I was struggling to latch him anyway. It was a nightmare.

1. The one day childcare - my MIL also did this for DS1 and she doesn't for DS2, so we've taken the hit of paying for an extra day in nursery. Reason being is she's established an intense relationship with him, completely spoiled him, ignored all of our requests of boundaries. He is SO naughty around her even to this day and he's 4. Thank god Covid has meant we now have a much more distant relationship with her! She adores him but it's done us a favour as we no longer rely on her for childcare for him (it felt too cruel to completely remove this from her even though I wanted to), he's in full time school just now anyway and all of her social visits are walks with all of us outside. The one blessing of covid!

So, you might want to rethink the childcare. I know it's hard as you want to be fair to both sets of grandparents - and to this day we are too even though my own parents respect boundaries a lot more (and FIL doesn't bother with any of his grandkids at all but that's another story) and nursery is expensive. But be warned, it'll give her that "one to one" time she is clearly so desperate for, and my own MIL took advantage of it massively.

My other advice would be just be firm, be confident in yourself overall. I wasn't, I was clueless and so let her just take advantage when DS1 was tiny and although I have a very civil, friendly relationship with her, we're not close and part of me will never forgive her. With DS2 I was confident in myself as a mum and when she was doing things like standing up rocking him and pretending not to hear me when I asked for him back to say he was due a feed (!) I knew I had to be assertive and insist.

My DgS was 11 months before he spent the night with us, DD would have told me where to go had I bought a next to me crib!
I bought a car seat for my car and a pushchair, only because I look after him Mon-Fri and it makes things easier.
DD’s MiL (not married yet) was meant to have him at least one day a week but is now moaning because her car doesn’t have isofix and she doesn’t want to buy a rear facing seat that works with a belt because she has an old forward facing one, he’s only just a year old 🙄