Questions for white people

[Questionspandemic]

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

What do your qualifications and salary level have to do with this? I am always reminded of this

[quote picklemewalnuts]@SoVeryLost "Isn’t this proof that the person if racist, positive discrimination doesn’t happen in the UK, if a BAME person got the job over a white person they would at least have the same level of qualification for the job (as in experience and/or qualifications). The belief someone got the job because of positive discrimination is racist or sexist depending on what you believe they were positively discriminated for. "

But there are programmes/schemes where BAME candidates are prioritised. Not against better candidates, but against equal candidates. The drive toward diversity means we need to advance BAME candidates into positions to redress the balance. At a societal level, that is quite right. At an individual level it's harder to accept.[/quote]
I maintain that makes the individual racist, unless they would make equally ridiculous statements if an equal male candidate got the job. If a BAME person was to say they missed on based on their colour loads of MNers would be going out of their way to prove this is a lie. There are plenty of studies which prove that BAME people are discriminated against when applying for jobs there is no evidence that white candidates are discriminated against.
Can you point out these schemes that prioritise BAME candidates that are current?

I don’t think ‘white’ privileged exists. I think social and economic privilege exists, I think cultural privilege exists but the idea that a white person just has to pull out their white privilege card and everything is automatically ok whilst the path to hardship is paved with melanin is missing the real issue and to some extent oppressing blacks into thinking they can’t do and can’t be anything they want because their skin is some sort of road block. I was chatting to one of the massive minority of black parents outside our very white village school, he was in his tweeds and off to the gun club to work on his aim before the shooting season. He had economic privilege, good for him.

Suggest anyone not persuaded about white privilege goes and has a little read

I’m not offended, I want to hear it, and understand.

I try to challenge people around me when they say racist things, and I’m open to hearing when I’ve said or done something wrong and want to learn from it.

@Fruitsaladjelly

I don’t think ‘white’ privileged exists. I think social and economic privilege exists, I think cultural privilege exists but the idea that a white person just has to pull out their white privilege card and everything is automatically ok whilst the path to hardship is paved with melanin is missing the real issue and to some extent oppressing blacks into thinking they can’t do and can’t be anything they want because their skin is some sort of road block. I was chatting to one of the massive minority of black parents outside our very white village school, he was in his tweeds and off to the gun club to work on his aim before the shooting season. He had economic privilege, good for him.

Fucking hell. Can't believe anyone can think like this.

I don’t think ‘white’ privileged exists ask all your male relatives how many times they have been pulled over by the police just for driving on by and then have a little think.

Plus some people are stupid and ignorant

Why would anyone speak honestly on threads where they're told this? It's not just this thread, it's every thread. It's impossible to have a reasoned and useful discussion about race now.

Also white privilege is definitely a thing and you definitely cannot be racist towards white people.

[quote Itisbetter]**@SoVeryLost* *@Itisbetter and @purpleboy you are both benefiting (assuming you are white) from a system that your ancestors created. While you can’t change the past you can change the present. Too many people blame their ancestors for the system they are happy to keep going, it’s a cop out when you blame your ancestors for current issues.
I literally said I think that I am responsible for my own behaviour not that of my forefathers how is that a “cop out?” How is it blaming them? Each of us is responsible for our own behaviour. That in no way implies I don’t see racism or understand the impact of history.[/quote]
It is a common excuse used by people who are trying to deny racism exists and/or a way of claiming that they aren't benefitting from a system that is racist. You are responsible for your own behaviour and that includes inaction.

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Generally speaking, they're not. It's completely understandable that black people would want to discuss their experiences.

However, don't conflate Critical Social Just Theory with being not being racists. There are other epistemological frameworks that would also be a valid way for a person to be against racism e.g. liberalism, humanism, socialism, and most major religions. Telling people that their deeply held religious belief i.e. that all people are perfect in the eyes of God, is not adequate, and they have to jump on board the social justice bandwagon, is not going to go down well. People didn't start out feeling racists, but now they are feeling personally attacked for deeply held beliefs that they had since they were young. Also, a lot of people believe in universalism not inter sectionalism.

Perhaps best to allow people their own ethical frameworks and not to insist on absolute fidelity to Critical Social Justice Theory which is after all just a theory and complete unfalsifiable through empirical enquiry.

Do you think the people who say "not all whites" to shut down any discussion are the exact same people who say "not all men"?

Not offended, but like all the big issues around, there needs to be discussion. If white people are shut down every time they try to get involved, the discussion amongst black people start sounding like they aren't looking for a solution.
Most white people are now gaining an understanding of structural racism, but being told to go and educate yourself shuts people down and makes them decide not to get involved for fear of saying the wrong thing.
That doesn't help the situation at all.

Anyone of any colour can speak about whatever the hell they want but don't ask me not to label you if you can't be bothered to do anything but label me.

I'm not in the least bit offended by black people talking about race, just as they could talk about gardening, football or anything else. But I wouldn't expect them to agree about it, and I would consider it offensive to suggest that they would.

Racism is so deeply ingrained in some people but they simply can't see it. My parents for instance, are generally good people, they would never mean anyone any harm, but they are racists. They are horrified when I point it out to them, but choose to still have those opinions and don't see their view points as racist at all.

Some people can't see past privilege either. White privilege doesn't mean that all white people have an easy life, but my dad just cannot see that!!

I am white and I think a lot of it has to do with our understanding of racism.

A lot of people think that is equal to aggression or slurs rather than bias or discrimination.

As a white person I cannot comprehend the micro aggressions BAME deal with in their lives, I can imagine I often appear ignorant when I might ask for clarification when someone is talking about their experiences or to ask about their culture, but it comes from a place of trying to teach myself so I can raise my son anti racist

@SoupDragon

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

They aren't. Racists are offended by black people talking about racism.

In a nutshell. Spot on.

Racism and all other examples of bullying, cruelty, bigotry, discrimination, prejudice and other '-isms' disgust me.

I have the inborn advantage of having white skin. But I have no more control over that than I do the views, actions or opinions of others. I can talk to them, but many people have such set views you are banging your head up against a brick wall.

Empress - I didn't see your rely before I wrote mine, but you are absolutely right. The almost universal adoption of critical race theory, post-colonial theory, etc, in an (ironically) uncritical way is extremely irritating....

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Generally speaking, they're not. It's completely understandable that black people would want to discuss their experiences

Yes, this.

you definitely cannot be racist towards white people Actually, in the law you can. You are using a different definition of racism from that which exists in the law. I understand the definition you use and why you use it, but it seems unfair to me that people are being accused of being racist or ignorant or whatever because they hold the definition of racism which exists under the UK's legal system.

@Fruitsaladjelly

I don’t think ‘white’ privileged exists. I think social and economic privilege exists, I think cultural privilege exists but the idea that a white person just has to pull out their white privilege card and everything is automatically ok whilst the path to hardship is paved with melanin is missing the real issue and to some extent oppressing blacks into thinking they can’t do and can’t be anything they want because their skin is some sort of road block. I was chatting to one of the massive minority of black parents outside our very white village school, he was in his tweeds and off to the gun club to work on his aim before the shooting season. He had economic privilege, good for him.

Massive minority of black parents and very white village school, which is it? You have no idea what you are talking about and are refusing to read the experiences of those who can prove exactly what you 'think' doesn't exist. www.theargus.co.uk/news/18001402.black-people-10-times-likely-stopped-searched-sussex-police/ www.theguardian.com/education/2010/apr/04/sats-marking-race-stereotypes If you google you'll find plenty of examples of the disparity in treatment.

There is a certain kind of white woman who is eager to sign up for the self flaggelation inherent in critical race theory. Social media is her forum, where she peddles collective guilt and lectures POC who reject the simplistic slogans and refuse to obediently embrace this quasi religious dogma. This has proved a lucrative gig for some of the palest, most privileged people on the planet. Robin De Angelo for one. Meanwhile, the voices of John McWhorter, Coleman Hughes are not given airplay in the UK.

@Owlypants

Many reasons. Some feel like they should not feel guilty for crimes of their ancestors or the actions of strangers, some people take it as a personal attack and can't handle criticism. Personally talking about racism doesn't offend me, it confuses me. I've read articles and watched interviews where I'm told that white people have to listen , I'm listening but all i hear is that I'll never understand. White people have to accept that white privilege exists, racism is a problem and white people must show their support to the black community by standing with them and stamping it out. Then I read an article telling me that white people should not get involved in any protests or debates because this is not about us.

^This ^

@QueenOfPain I'm white. I'm also Jewish. I've definitely experienced racism.

@Itsabeautifuldayheyhey

but as an immigrant black woman (highly qualified and in the 1% in terms of salary) I never felt black women are women What do your qualifications and salary level have to do with this?

She is privileged in terms of wealth and education.