Questions for white people

[Questionspandemic]

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

I'm not, but I sure do think some stuff coming out of the US about "white thought" is pretty fucked up. Robin Di angelo coining it running workshops that tell people things like scientific thought or time keeping are "white". I don't like this idea that I'm a single entity with every other white person, any more than I want to view black people as sharing any similarities with each other as a group. Other than, you know, having experienced racism I never have.

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

They're not.

This has fascinating parallels with men and sexism/misogyny. Loads of the same reasons apply.

There’s more truth than I used to think in the idea that people just don’t care if it doesn’t affect them. Very sad.

Not offended. I have been bemused because of the ad hominem attacks, from both sides.

Recent threads have been more open to actual discussion. Which is a far better experience than previously.

I’m not sure white people in general are offended by black people talking about racism.

I’ve seen comments from white people on SM that range from total support for protesters/BLM and finally tackling racism in a meaningful way, to questioning the narrative as presented (AKA “but was it racist? I get asked x, y and z all the time”), to absolute denial that there is a problem.

I have also seen some very extreme/negative comments against white people in general on SM, which, personally I find disheartening and often reduces the discussion to petty “oh, so its ok to say that “all white people are xx” but racist to say “all black people are xx” comments, rather than meaningful dialogue.

Personally, I think people just don’t like being confronted with their own prejudices and go into defensive mode. Also, it’s hard to see there’s a problem when you aren’t on the receiving end of it. As a PP has put, I have given up talking to men about sexism because they do not get it. It always descends into “but women are given equality under the law, men have to fight in wars, men are more likely to die of suicide than women”. None of which I deny but it doesn’t take away from the day to day experience of being on the receiving end of sexism.

I’m not saying it’s truly comparable, just that it’s very difficult to make anyone see outside of their own personal experience, hence the offence and defensiveness about tackling such a subject (particularly when coming from their “accusers” so to speak).

I wouldn't be offended if my black ndn was to have a conversation with me and told me of any experience(s) she'd had of racism but I wouldn't want every conversation with her to be about it. It would just get boring and we've got lots more things to talk about too.

If a black person frequently brought this up in my presence, I would probably get very bored with the topic.

I don't consider myself a racist so, I can see that I could take it personally based on the frequency with which the subject came up.

Absolutely has parallels with sexism yes . It’s very similair to the “ well women have equality so why do we need feminism line”

do we really tho ?

Some people just really fail to see the bigger picture when it doesn’t directly affect them

Obviously it isn't all white people, but (as a white person), I think we need to stop getting too defensive about the generalisations. It's natural to want to distance yourself from the racist twats, but we are talking about societal problems, not individuals. Sometimes it's helpful to be able to talk in generalisations without having to spell out explicitly that it isn't everyone.

I struggle with this myself, sometimes. I don't want to be lumped in with those white people, but we need to stop feeling so sensitive about it and accept that it really isn't all about us.

@PicsInRed

Many don't want to admit that their success is at least in part due to the birth accident of their colour, rather than their own "effort", "talent", or general intrinsic marvellousness.

They won't admit it, but subconsciously they know this, fear losing the advantage and will fight to retain it.

Since BLM has been more widely talked about there are a couple of people I know who've opened up and shown themselves as being very much part of the "white privilege doesn't exist" group which has surprised me hugely because I would never have pinned them that way.

It is hard to openly acknowledge our flaws, biases and ignorance. Harder still to then try and learn new processes and behaviours.

@picklemewalnuts is quite right. It’s easier to disengage from it than acknowledge the fact that we are all part of the problem.

Darkmilk - This has fascinating parallels with men and sexism

It does and I see it all the time - but as an immigrant black woman (highly qualified and in the 1% in terms of salary) I never felt black women are women - white women talking about sexism and misogyny feels distant and an outsider - yet I understand exactly what they mean.

@Questionspandemic

yeOlde 1. Question is as simple as that. 2. I was upfront not all white people - but anyway, I see this all the time on here

If you'd typed the first line of your OP properly, there would have been no need for the second line.

"Why are some white people offended by black people talking about racism?"

Without the 'some', it's offensive even if you did 'make up for it' in the second line.

[quote Thecobwebsarewinning]@picklemewalnuts is quite right. It’s easier to disengage from it than acknowledge the fact that we are all part of the problem.[/quote]
Hi Thecobwebsarewinning
You say we are all part of "the problem".
What problem are you talking about and what is your role in it?

@Questionspandemic

GotOut - SOME white people not ALL. Can we move away from this? I was upfront that not all white people and everyone knows it's not all people.

You may have been upfront about this but the person who made the comment up thread did not. Which is what happens a lot on these threads.

If someone is going to put a statement out assuming that I'm racist just because of the colour of my skin then I will shut down and not participate as they are clearly not worth my time. So no, I'm not embarrassed by black people talking about racism, its something that needs to be discussed and addressed, but when I am automtically labelled racist because I am white (i didn't chose my ethnicity) then end of conversation.

Because in my eyes racism works both ways and now the police etc only seem to penalise white youths ,people in this area!
There's good and bad in all races and everyone should be treated as equals which is definitely not happening around here.

Well I am racist ..... and I work hard at mitigating it. I grew up in SE London in the 60s and 70s, when the black and white minstrel show was prime time viewing. My BAME friends were subject to dreadful intimidation and lack of expectations by police and teachers. This has all become part of my make-up, whether I want it or not.

I am aware that it is so and try very hard to compensate and negate it. I will admit this on an anonymous forum, but in real like this would be problematic.

I have a problem talking of racism IRL and am uncomfortable doing so. It may be that it is this discomfort you are picking up?

I would like to say, I try very very very hard to “check” this upbringing (which is not very different from the majority of my generation) and it may take several generations for people to regard the colour of skin as irrelevant, whilst respecting culture.

Have you read 'White Fragility'? (I haven't but believe it answers this question).

The only thing that bothers me is lumping us altogether as "white people", implying that all white people are racists. I'm very much for supporting black people in any way I can, I don't see myself as "white people", in that sense and it does make me feel that however hard I try to support black and all BAME people, I will always be judged as one of "them". It's a little disheartening, but I realised in the big scheme of things my feelings aren't relevant to what you are trying to achieve and would never have mentioned it, but since you asked.

WorraLiberty I am not making it up for anything. Why would not read the whole OP before - I've seen it before

Because we are not black. Its that simple for some. How can we/they ever relate if they have never experienced what the BAME community have faced? Its so depressing - my family are guilty of this at times and it infuriates me but its tiring trying to educate them on it

I'm not offended by black people talking about racism, but I get very frustrated when movements such as BLM portray it as the only issue or type of discrimination that deserves the spotlight. I understand the view that discussing other forms of prejudice can dilute the focus, but I just cannot accept that this means that other problems can't also be raised or intersectionality must be disregarded.

I also think that the perceived lack of nuance and desire for an echo chamber can make it difficult for white people to engage with the issue. Cancel culture means that people aren't really given space to learn and it can be difficult to endorse a sentiment (being anti-racist) whilst challenging certain elements of BLM that can be seen as overly radical.

@SoVeryLost "Isn’t this proof that the person if racist, positive discrimination doesn’t happen in the UK, if a BAME person got the job over a white person they would at least have the same level of qualification for the job (as in experience and/or qualifications). The belief someone got the job because of positive discrimination is racist or sexist depending on what you believe they were positively discriminated for. "

But there are programmes/schemes where BAME candidates are prioritised. Not against better candidates, but against equal candidates. The drive toward diversity means we need to advance BAME candidates into positions to redress the balance. At a societal level, that is quite right. At an individual level it's harder to accept.

Because they don't like to feel anything bad about themselves. They (esp the racists) like to think they are the "best" humans and should be "an example" to the rest of us poor brown buggers.

And they don't like to be reminded of, or faced with, their own savagery throughout history and in the present day.

It doesn't offend me.

I think some people feel threatened by things they can't seem to control or understand, so it's easier to dismiss them. Hence #alllivesmatter is used not as a humanitarian pledge but as an attempt to eliminate the whole conversation.