Questions for white people

[Questionspandemic]

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

Obviously not all white people are racist and name changed - in case of gaslighting.

These threads are becoming quite boring

'White people do that' it then becomes personal because you're including all the non racist white people in the discussion about the negative things racist White people do and they don't feel they deserve to be lumped in with them, I can no more control a group of people I don't even know than I can my ancestors.

You see this is what the problem is, to take aim at being 'lumped' with racists and turn focus away from act acknowledging racism when all white people benefit from privilege.
See the unprecedented number of Ofcom complaints about Banjo's performance by people who claim to not be racist but are just offended by it.

Some people are genuinely racist, and don't like being called out on it.
Some people feel personally attacked, and are therefore defensive.
Some people feel guilty about the state of society, and therefore defensive.
Some are ignorant of how others are treated.

It's actually very difficult for most individuals to change the structures of society.
I do think that positive discrimination is the only way we can change things because legislation hasn't worked. There is no excuse for people to suffer prejudice based on their skin colour.

But it's easy for me to say that, and not so easy for me to have an effect on people's lives.

It's also unhelpful to write off as racist bigots anyone who won't accept the prevailing BLM movement- 'BLM' has significant issues which can't be ignored for fear of racism accusations. That is not to say Black lives don't matter- it's that political organisation that is being criticised.

Also the people who complain about BLM protests and the diversity dance also complain about extinction rebellion, and probably people who campaign outside abortion clinics and people on strike. It's not racist, it's more an antagonism toward people who rock the boat.

@Imgladimnotyourchild

Then scroll on by, and don't post- Mumsnetting isn't compulsory.

GotOut - SOME white people not ALL. Can we move away from this? I was upfront that not all white people and everyone knows it's not all people.

I genuinely find some people can not grasp what racism actually is . It’s been more of a topic of conversation recently amongst people I know due to everything that’s been going on so have found myself in conversations I maybe wouldn’t normally Have with workmates for example .

It is so beyond frustrating trying to explain things Like for example the need for black lives matter .

I have I think got through to a few people at least but I genuinely think a lot of people think that because they would never actually say anything racist to someone that that’s the problem solved n racism isn’t an issue

Many don't want to admit that their success is at least in part due to the birth accident of their colour, rather than their own "effort", "talent", or general intrinsic marvellousness.

They won't admit it, but subconsciously they know this, fear losing the advantage and will fight to retain it.

I'm not at all offended by it personally. As a society, I think we need to talk about this stuff more.

I think a lot of white people feel uncomfortable talking about it though. It can be hard to question your own assumptions and behaviour. It can be unpleasant to think about stuff that makes you feel guilty or criticised in some way. It can be challenging to see the privilege that you've always taken for granted. It can be scary to think about changes that might take away some of that privilege, especially if you see this as potentially putting you at a disadvantage, rather than merely levelling up the playing field. And frankly, when something doesn't affect you directly, it's just easier to bury your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist.

Please do keep talking about it though. White people will just have to accept a certain level of discomfort about this stuff if anything is going to change. A lot of the discomfort can be dealt with by becoming an ally and working towards equality for everyone.

Because "white people" feels like a racist way of talking about millions upon millions of people in this country with very very different experiences? I would never talk about "black people" or any other racial group as a single group in that way

Namechanged87 - I genuinely find some people can not grasp what racism actually is and how traumatic it is

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

I can't understand the question. Did you mean "all white folk" are just "some." I don't understand other people any better just because we share a skin colour, so anything I say is just guessing. My guesses are often bad. Good luck in your quest.

Because it highlights a major flaw in them and their family and friends.

Agree, they take it very personally and then become defensive. It’s A horrible response.

It doesn’t exactly answer your question, but I’ve been reflecting on the recent threads about a black section on MN.

I was disgusted by the number of people who hijacked the thread by demanding to know why the poster felt the need to “exclude” white users by requesting a new section.

For anyone who is in doubt that racism is alive and well.. I would have a read of that thread and the hatred and aggression that was directed at the suggestion that there might be a new black section for discussion of topics chosen by black people. It highlights exactly why the section is needed.

I’ve also been horrified by seeing posts of fb from acquaintances along the lives of “all lives matter” and “why does everything have to be about race.. why can’t we all just get along”. This kind of attitude wilfully ignores people’s own privilege and refuses to acknowledge that they have an unconscious racist bias, even if they do not hold “overtly” racist views.

The attitude seems to be that if black people are treated badly, well they must have done something to deserve it, because we’re not racist.

I’m aware from feminism that’s it’s annoying and distracting to keep on with the disclaimer Not all men are like that. So I can see the need to use ‘white people’ in discussions on race. We’ve just got to get over it I think, it’s not a personal attack

As a pp said, I think it's that it is wrongly seen as a personal attack at an individual level, instead of criticism of the system.

There is the whole white fragility thing as well; being seen as racist is seen as such a terrible thing. So, when someone does something racist, even if it is unintentional and they get told they are being racist, fear makes them scream that they are NOT RACIST. So, a white person being called racist becomes the main issue, instead of the racism itself. It isn't right, but I believe this is, partly, why it happens.

I’m white.
I’m not offended by black people talking about racism.

I’m very aware it does happen.
What does offend me is when people think it’s only whites that can be racist!

Because (and I say this as a white person) they can not understand just how much racism there is. Small things that many people shrug off because it 'rarely happens', a black person knows the truth.

The way I see it, from my own experience, it's like with my DH. He doesn't "get" everyday sexism. He doesn't see that women are treated differently every day of our lives. He doesn't understand how or why we feel in danger walking alone because he never feels scared. It's just a dark street. We're overreacting. He doesn't understand the fear a woman has when a strange man puts his hands on you in a night club because a woman putting hands on him would be something he would just shrug off and say no thanks. My DH isn't sexist at all, but he doesn't "get it" like women do.

It's the same for white people and racism. We don't get it, despite many people not actually being racist or not realising that they inadvertently are, even if it's just a wee bit. And they feel attacked when it's brought up repeatedly.

I argued with a friend who said, "so what if you're pulled over. It doesn't matter if you're not doing anything wrong. I've been pulled over a couple of times and I just get on with my day"

She couldn't grasp the fact that BAME people are far more likely to be pulled over. For no reason. This alone is a huge insult. Another friend's solicitor husband (who is black) was pulled over 8 times in 6 years. That's a massive amount. My white arse has been pulled over (justifiable suspicion but I was innocent) one time in 18 years of driving.

'' I also think that it's very generalised 'white people do this' 'White people do that' it then becomes personal because you're including all the non racist white people in the discussion about the negative things racist White people do ''

I agree with ^^

Any generalization is going to upset people, regardless of their ethnicity. After all, none of us are actually the 'stereotype' of our ethnicity, and any 'generalization' about this WILL piss people off, it's quite a natural reaction, surely ?

yeOlde 1. Question is as simple as that. 2. I was upfront not all white people - but anyway, I see this all the time on here

Because mostly they are no affected by it. I don’t think they are offended tbh, it just doesn’t affect them, they have many other things they are struggling with that afffects their lives so don’t necessarily have the time and energy to keep talking about it.

Maybe they’re tired of every time they turn on the tv they are being accused of being something they’re not and if they dare say so they are told just don’t understand because of white privilege (hard for someone struggling to feed their kids being told they are privileged in any way by a multimillionaire who gets his money from kicking a sack of air round a field - yes I know it’s not what is meant but it’s how it sounds).

I don’t think the current BLM campaign is helping anyone tbh. There’s too much aggression and blaming and not enough debate and education.

But in summary most white people aren’t affected by racism so it’s quite a way down their agenda. They’re not offended, they’re probably bored.

I think people cant comprehend something that hasn't directly happened to them

@picklemewalnuts

So many reasons. Partly it's about the difference between individual experience and population wide experience. The individual doesn't think they are racist. Let's say they are 99% not racist, and have 1% hidden bias (that's someone like me- not intentionally racist but there will be some things I'm not noticed about myself). Add that up across an organisation or population and it becomes a significant barrier. But no individual feels racist.

At an individual level, if a white person from a disadvantaged background fails to get a job because positive discrimination favours a bame candidate then they will feel discriminated against, that the policy is racist, that BAME candidates have advantages over white candidates etc.

Because we can't see our own privilege
Because we see other people with other barriers (poor white boys) and think 'what about them'.
Because as individuals we are not racist, but live in a society that is racist.

Isn’t this proof that the person if racist, positive discrimination doesn’t happen in the UK, if a BAME person got the job over a white person they would at least have the same level of qualification for the job (as in experience and/or qualifications). The belief someone got the job because of positive discrimination is racist or sexist depending on what you believe they were positively discriminated for.

@Itisbetter and @purpleboy you are both benefiting (assuming you are white) from a system that your ancestors created. While you can’t change the past you can change the present. Too many people blame their ancestors for the system they are happy to keep going, it’s a cop out when you blame your ancestors for current issues.

Why are white people offended by black people talking about racism?

They aren't. Racists are offended by black people talking about racism.

Absolutely @Questionspandemic
But I think unless people are prepared to just educate them self’s a little and look at how far reaching the effects of racism are and how ingrained in society It is then I think that they just get stuck on the whole “ well iv never said anything racist to anyone“ way of thinking and genuinely don’t understand the bigger picture . Massively frustrating .

I do think all the recent events have got people talking more though as I say and talking about it is a good thing