Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to be angry about 6th form's "shoulder's must be covered" policy

631 replies

randomname7208633 · 15/09/2020 08:45

I'm a dad of 4 (just putting that out there so there's no confusion) and this morning my dd (17) told me that yesterday, which was pretty hot here (not that that should matter,) she was told by a female member of staff that she had to either wear a coat all day or go home because her top had straps which made her shoulders visible.

Nothing else was uncovered and she was in no way indecent, she was just informed that shoulders had to be covered because otherwise (I know you can see this coming) it was "distracting to boys".

Apparently quite a few other girls were given the same warning that day (probably because it was the first really warm day since they'd been back to school and had all dressed according to the weather) and then a school wide announcement was made.

I've checked the uniform policy and there's no mention of it so I've emailed the school asking for clarification.

If this is indeed a policy that's being enforced I think it's ridiculous that female students are being made to dress in ways to suit male students. If a boy is distracted by girl's shoulders then the problem is with the boy! The messages this sends out just make me smh. It's 2020 and girls are having to think about how their clothes might make boys (and by extension, men) react. Argh!!!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
HipTightOnions · 15/09/2020 10:26

she can wear what she likes and show off her lovely shoulders

School is not for “showing off your lovely shoulders”, for girls or boys.

Straven123 · 15/09/2020 10:26

Boys might turn up in 'wifebeater' t shirts.
Seems a reasonable rule to me.

LittleGwyneth · 15/09/2020 10:27

I find the business dress for sixth form thing so depressing. How many of us wear a suit to work everyday? I would never have chosen a job where I had to wear a shirt and jacket every day, and it seems really miserable to make teens do so, especially during a time when they're working out their personal style. I remember sitting on the grass at school in a shirt and skirt and just wishing I was still in uniform so I could run around and feel comfortable.

That was a massive tangent - YANBU for expecting the school to state a dress code if it has one, and you're certainly NBU for thinking the 'distracting to boys' comment is bonkers.

I went to an all girl school and they used to claim our clothing was distracting to the groundsmen. As if they gave a toss what we were wearing. If your gardeners are staring at teenagers while they're mowing the lawns then the problem is certainly not with the girls!

MillyMollyFarmer · 15/09/2020 10:29

Is school for showing off knees in shorts?

Should shorts be banned?

What about feet? Completely covered? Foot fetishes are common so best we don’t tempt anyone at school....

I cannot believe how old fashioned and silly people are.

Rollmopsrule · 15/09/2020 10:30

I agree OP. Your right to complain to the school.

Aragog · 15/09/2020 10:30

At DD's old sixth form there was a rule for every student that was similar - no bare shoulders (so no vests for boys or girls) and no bare midriffs. Also no short shorts/hot pants or tiny skirts, though they didn't go as far as specifying a length as such.

Was fine and easy to abide by. T shirts were fine.

CasuallyMasculine · 15/09/2020 10:31

There's quite a few posts I'd like to respond to individually but I'm at work now so might not get chance.

What made you decide to post on this topic just before you set off for work and were therefore unable to clarify anything in your OP, I wonder?

Disfordarkchocolate · 15/09/2020 10:32

It's not women's job to control male behaviour. There is nothing indecent or distracting about women's shoulders.

I'd be furious too.

froggygoneacourting · 15/09/2020 10:32

I had a meeting with the CEO of my largest client the other day (a woman who’s been heavily profiled in major media including the FT and Vogue, and frequently appears on lists of female power players in the UK) and she was wearing a hot pink bralette type thing.

It’s not 1954 anymore. Wear what you want.

OiSortItOwt · 15/09/2020 10:35

People are right in that shoulders are totally innocent and inoffensive. But by default the armpits will be bare. Perhaps a rule for all students saying 'armpits must be covered' would make more sense!

ARMPITS?!

to be angry about 6th form's "shoulder's must be covered" policy
SerenDippitty · 15/09/2020 10:35

The more successful and powerful you are the more clothing freedom you have. We should encourage our daughters to aspire to be scientists, CEOs, writers, artists, policy makers. Not McDonalds peons in polyester uniforms.

I’ve worked with a couple of female CEOs and several female directors. Never saw any of them in spaghetti strap tops in the office

KitchenBandAid · 15/09/2020 10:37

YABU, you should be insisting she wears long sleeve tops and skirts down to her ankles. Also, make sure her hair is up and she not wearing any makeup or nail varnish. We wouldn't want those boys to get the wrong impression now would we.

I'd be livid.

froggygoneacourting · 15/09/2020 10:37

I’ve worked with a couple of female CEOs and several female directors. Never saw any of them in spaghetti strap tops in the office.

I’ve seen plenty. 🤷‍♀️

I bet you didn’t see any in branded uniform. They certainly had more power to choose their own clothing than someone at the bottom of the food chain.

WildAboutMyPlanet · 15/09/2020 10:39

@froggygoneacourting

I had a meeting with the CEO of my largest client the other day (a woman who’s been heavily profiled in major media including the FT and Vogue, and frequently appears on lists of female power players in the UK) and she was wearing a hot pink bralette type thing.

It’s not 1954 anymore. Wear what you want.

I don’t agree with wear whatever you want. A woman I work with came in in tiny hot pants and I could see the cheeks of her bum. I’m a woman and I found it inappropriate personally! And I wouldn’t be happy if a man came in with his bum cheeks hangout out or his top off either, nothing to do with sexism, just don’t want to see other people’s bits and bobs!
WildAboutMyPlanet · 15/09/2020 10:41

Also @froggygoneacourting there is nothing wrong with working in McDonald’s, don’t be so judgemental.

LemonTT · 15/09/2020 10:45

Meh

I agree that uniforms and dress codes should not be about modesty. But they can be conservative because they are about conformity and belonging. They have to suit everyone & project the organisation identity not the individual identity.

I don’t agree with uniforms and codes in a lot of settings. But where they are right, then they will be based on the organisations identity. If that is conservative it is fine for no shoulders, men in shorts or mini skirts. If the organisation image is funky and youthful then shorts and bright colours might be right. See holiday reps.

BiBabbles · 15/09/2020 10:45

The email sounds sensible. I don't automatically think the comment about boys is a lie, but one staff member's opinion on why it's there, if it was said seriously, doesn't mean that's why the school is doing this. Whether you want to get clarification on that is up to you. I've done this one before when, after a new head started, we were sent a letter saying girls could only wear shorts or legging for PE (while boys could wear tracksuit bottoms). That got changed pretty sharpish.

Similar to many workplaces, some schools have a very general dress code policy so won't have much detail listed and some have a specific uniform policy. This school sounds like for 6th form has a general 'sensible' policy with a few rules.

Obviously that leaves it open to interpretation and they may be trying to reinforce what that means. With things like strappy tops, which come in many varieties, there may have been some unsensible boundary pushing that has ended up with a blanket ban.

I went to a school that moved from a very general with few rules to a more specific dress code policy because of similar comments on this thread - 'if it doesn't outright say it then...' - and as with any school dress code, some pushed it and then parents pushed with their kids. The rules were pretty out of date - they were from the school start in the early 1900s so hats were still acceptable and no mentions of stomach showing because that wouldn't have been sensible back then. The rules ended up changed to line up with other schools around us so we lost a lot of the freedoms we had had because too many were complaining the rules weren't specific enough for them to follow & wouldn't have their kids follow them unless spelled out.

So, while getting clarification can be helpful in figuring what they mean by sensible, I wouldn't really fight for strappy tops.

froggygoneacourting · 15/09/2020 10:46

Yes I’m soooooooo sure MN is full of parents who’d genuinely encourage their kids to aim for a career as a McDonalds worker. Hmm

Cop yourself on.

trappedsincesundaymorn · 15/09/2020 10:48

Is it not meant to be preparing them for the world of work

Considering my DD's job is working with animals in a zoo I'm not sure how her being in "business attire" would have helped her prepare for that. How many animal keepers have you seen in a suit and tie, or a smart blouse/skirt combo?

Thisismytimetoshine · 15/09/2020 10:49

@trappedsincesundaymorn

Is it not meant to be preparing them for the world of work

Considering my DD's job is working with animals in a zoo I'm not sure how her being in "business attire" would have helped her prepare for that. How many animal keepers have you seen in a suit and tie, or a smart blouse/skirt combo?

How many have you seen in spaghetti strapped tops, showing off their shoulders? 🤷🏻‍♀️
Wheresthebeach · 15/09/2020 10:51

I've no issue with no spaghetti straps, although think schools are about 15 years behind with their idea of business dress.

The sexists crap about distracting boys needs dealing with though.

redgin · 15/09/2020 10:52

I don't see the problem. I would support an appropriate dress code.. inc no spaghetti straps.

Putting all the over sensitive reasoning to one side, it's fine by me that a certain degree of modesty is expected, for many many reasons

MillyMollyFarmer · 15/09/2020 10:52

Why is not covering shoulders, ‘showing off’. Some people must find life a constant battle not to get aroused by shoulders knees and toes being shown off by all and sundry. Tough life

StarchyStanley · 15/09/2020 10:52

I believe this! A friend of mine was sitting exams at Cambridge university, in the summertime. She was told to put on her cardigan as she would be a distraction for the male students! This was in the early noughties though.

MillyMollyFarmer · 15/09/2020 10:52

a certain degree of modesty is expected

Grin covering shoulders is now a certain degree of modesty. Jesus.

Swipe left for the next trending thread