to be angry about 6th form's "shoulder's must be covered" policy

[randomname7208633]

I'm a dad of 4 (just putting that out there so there's no confusion) and this morning my dd (17) told me that yesterday, which was pretty hot here (not that that should matter,) she was told by a female member of staff that she had to either wear a coat all day or go home because her top had straps which made her shoulders visible.

Nothing else was uncovered and she was in no way indecent, she was just informed that shoulders had to be covered because otherwise (I know you can see this coming) it was "distracting to boys".

Apparently quite a few other girls were given the same warning that day (probably because it was the first really warm day since they'd been back to school and had all dressed according to the weather) and then a school wide announcement was made.

I've checked the uniform policy and there's no mention of it so I've emailed the school asking for clarification.

If this is indeed a policy that's being enforced I think it's ridiculous that female students are being made to dress in ways to suit male students. If a boy is distracted by girl's shoulders then the problem is with the boy! The messages this sends out just make me smh. It's 2020 and girls are having to think about how their clothes might make boys (and by extension, men) react. Argh!!!

As so glad my DC’s have finished this stage of their education. They managed to go through their whole school life without a uniform and wore jeans and T-shirt most days. You don’t need to wear someone’s idea of professional clothing to do you A levels. The UK’s school uniform ideas are so antiquated.

@IncandescentSilver Insee no problem with a tunic top but I bet no man in your law firm would be allowed to wear one. Perhaps the reason its always women being told what to wear in the work place is that men basically have a "uniform" of shirt and trousers.

Haven’t managed to read the full thread but just from reading OPs post it sounds like a lot of depressing internalised misogyny on here. I do not understand how any woman could think it acceptable for a comment to be made about a dress policy for young women to be made on the basis of young men’s sexual desire. Or even if it is a reasonable policy compared with some business environments, the fact a staff member is trotting this out as a reason is deeply concerning and one I would absolutely be ‘that parent’ over.

Perhaps the reason its always women being told what to wear in the work place is that men basically have a "uniform" of shirt and trousers.

Except they don’t. Only in some. My DH has never worn a suit to work, or trousers or even a shirt. He wears t shirts and shorts or jeans. To an office. He’s also top of his field and has led teams all across London. In cheap t shirts and jeans.

At my workplace . We are not allowed to have uncovered shoulders. At one point we weren't allowed to wear sandals, cropped trousers, leggings, low cut tops, short skirts., ballet pumps. We are not allowed denim of any form.

@MillyMollyFarmer

Most professional businesses have the same dress code.

No they don’t. Do you mean offices? That’s what you consider ‘professional’? People do all sorts of professional jobs and most of them don’t have this kind of dress code. Making children conform to a middle class idea of a proper job’s dress code is stupid and pointless. It achieves nothing. It really doesn’t.

Even if that poster was wrongly using professional to mean office environment, I'm still sufficiently sceptical that I wouldn't believe her without evidence. Evidently there are offices that exist where this is a rule, but most? Doubt it. I've been in some fairly fusty ones where suits were expected but sleeveless tops underneath were fine, and not even particularly recently either. So, prove the claim.

*PorcuoineInWaiting" it's more to do with seniority and being good at the job than "men not being allowed to wear" certain items.

One of the male managing partners had to wear his cycling gear one day as he forgot a change of clothing. Not just in his own office, but in an internal meeting too. Unsure whether he saw clients that day. However, tight fitting black mini skirts is not unusual in court solicitors (anything as long as its black) for everywhere except in court itself, where they will be gowned up, is fairly standard amongst trainees and first to fifth years.

@MillyMollyFarmer and are women forbidden from wearing those things in his workplace?

DDs sixth form has a business dress policy jackets must be worn in corridors and common areas at all times, much stricter than my public sector workplace where we have dress down Friday ( currently wfh in joggers and T-shirts) boys have to wear a suit and tie and are much more restricted than the girls, they're pretty much still in uniform while the girls are in the latest fashions of H&M and New Look, the general interpretation of the policy for girls is to follow what the female teachers wear which isn't unreasonable,

When your child signs up for sixth form they're agreeing to abide by the rules, they can go to college instead and wear jeans and T-shirts, sixth form isn't compulsory.

I first heard of this "business attire" in sixth form this year. I find it incredibly depressing. Sixth formers are still kids working out who they are in the world and fashion is one way they do this.

Not all students taking A levels will work in offices with strict dress codes (and I could go on about this too). Why stunt the creative styling of those that won't be?

@MillyMollyFarmer and are women forbidden from wearing those things in his workplace?

There isn’t a dress code. No forbidding women or men or telling them what to wear at all.

DDs sixth form has a business dress policy

No it doesn’t. It has an interpretation of business dress that is limited and not reflected commonly today. What you mean by business I assume is, office. People work in all kinds of businesses and most don’t have dress codes.

Our head manages to run an OFSTED rated outstanding school whilst wearing them!

And Mark Zuckerberg runs Facebook wearing a hoodie. He still looks very unprofessional and sloppy.

But it doesn’t affect his business so who cares if a few uptight people think it’s ‘unprofessional’? Most don’t.

We need to move away from the attitude that what you are wearing qualifies whether you are good at your job. I’m wearing shorts and T-shirt today - I will do my job just as well as if I was wearing a skirt, jacket and shirt.

A formal school uniform doesn’t dictate higher exam results or mean it’s a good school.

Couldn't we cover women up in big red cloaks? And white headresses? They're a distraction to men. And everyone knows they can't focus on a task if their shoulders are on display. Blessed be the fruit.

@MillyMollyFarmer

But it doesn’t affect his business so who cares if a few uptight people think it’s ‘unprofessional’? Most don’t.

And you know this how? You have no idea what most people think. They’re hardly likely to tell him he looks scruffy and his appearance doesn’t inspire confidence, are they?

I agree with PP that business attire in sixth form is so depressing. 6th form is the one place where you can wear crazy clothes. Really discover yourself and share it with friends. I didn’t realise how lucky I was to go somewhere where you could wear what you want.

And Mark Zuckerberg runs Facebook wearing a hoodie. He still looks very unprofessional and sloppy.

I'm sure the self made billionaire will be very upset that you think he looks unprofessional and sloppy .

The kind of 'business attire' that schools seem to want children to wear reminds me of the outfits that estate agents and car salesmen use. Neither of which I'd consider middle class professions, surely that's more things like medicine and engineering, jobs that needed degrees to do 50 years ago.

I wish it was shorts and Tshirt weather where I live today.

@FrenchtoEnglish

Couldn't we cover women up in big red cloaks? And white headresses? They're a distraction to men. And everyone knows they can't focus on a task if their shoulders are on display. Blessed be the fruit.

Give it a while and we will be

Under his eye

Distracting to boys is insulting to both the girls and boys.

Our Year 13 boy has seen shoulders before and not dissolved to jelly. Our considerably older daughter would have worn what she was comfortable in on a hot day, within the specified limits. If any young man were “distracted”, that’s for him to work on. Not her issue.

What a stupid thing to say.

What a

“But how do you know the billionaire founder of one of the most successful, influential and profitable websites of all time hasn’t had his career negatively affected by his clothing?”

Let’s not imagine a world where MZ is even more wealthy and successful than he already is.

I'm sure the self made billionaire will be very upset that you think he looks unprofessional and sloppy

He knows he looks like shite and doesn’t care. That’s the point.

Oh, except that one time he testified in front of the US congress.

People keep their views on scruffiness mostly to themselves in the UK, don't they?