to be angry about 6th form's "shoulder's must be covered" policy

[randomname7208633]

I'm a dad of 4 (just putting that out there so there's no confusion) and this morning my dd (17) told me that yesterday, which was pretty hot here (not that that should matter,) she was told by a female member of staff that she had to either wear a coat all day or go home because her top had straps which made her shoulders visible.

Nothing else was uncovered and she was in no way indecent, she was just informed that shoulders had to be covered because otherwise (I know you can see this coming) it was "distracting to boys".

Apparently quite a few other girls were given the same warning that day (probably because it was the first really warm day since they'd been back to school and had all dressed according to the weather) and then a school wide announcement was made.

I've checked the uniform policy and there's no mention of it so I've emailed the school asking for clarification.

If this is indeed a policy that's being enforced I think it's ridiculous that female students are being made to dress in ways to suit male students. If a boy is distracted by girl's shoulders then the problem is with the boy! The messages this sends out just make me smh. It's 2020 and girls are having to think about how their clothes might make boys (and by extension, men) react. Argh!!!

I don't understand people who take offence at "distracting the boys" comment but still think spaghetti straps/bare shoulders are not appropriate. Surely the reason they are inappropriate is because they are, to put it very bluntly (which I wouldn't in real life) "distracting to boys"?

"op has repeatedly stated there is no dress code about the shoulders"

Just because there is no explicit reference to no bare shoulders doesn't mean it is not covered. There will be some guidance as to what tops are considered suitable for both sexes.

I bet it doesn't explicitly say anything about bare chests being banned either.

@CasuallyMasculine

Maybe you could "clarify" what you're really trying to say here?

Sorry, OP, I took your statement that you were off to work and wouldn’t be able to reply as meaning you wouldn’t be able to log into mumsnet while you were working, but I can see that you have been able to after all.

My statement that I was "off to work"? Where did you read that? I said I was at work, from where I was clearly logged in, explaining that I couldn't reply as much as I would like to, so why post such obvious bullshit as you have above? I don't know what your problem is, why you've taken such an issue with me or why you've resorted to misquoting me and making things up but why not just stop eh?

I love the idea that shoulders are distracting. Can’t say I have ever been distracted by someone’s shoulders. I think the porn available instantaneous on any teenage boys phone is probably a bit more distracting than some shoulders.

I think the real issue is many of these so called dress policies were written in the 50's and just copied forward. There are very few offices which still maintain completely formal office dress. And actually this has always been less strict for women in terms of choice of what to wear - dress skirt and now trousers short sleeved top no sleeve 3.4 or full - men - suit shirt and tie end of

It needs someone to sit down and look at the rules in a more objective way - why would skin need to be covered, to stop being a distraction to anyone themselves included, to stop getting cold in air conditioned rooms (if such a think exists in a school) etc etc

Its not a social occasion and kids shouldn't be dressing to be attractive to whichever sex they prefer. so if for the school in question this means the shortest type of sleeve allowed is a T shirt then they should say that and it should apply to both sexes, same for shorts and skirts, specify a shortest length and apply to both sexes, same for heels and platforms can apply to all, maybe best to allow say up to an inch and it be across the board - they are still too fixated on two dress codes and that is where the angst comes in of girls being dictated to based on boys reactions.

Don't even get me on logo'd uniform from fixed suppliers why the hell the UK can't standardise design of uniform I don't know and have a way for it to have a small range of styles that suit a range of body types. Yes fine have school colours but why can't we just have white shirts grey bottoms school colour jumper and standard blazer with a sew on patch for school emblem. I don't get all this school branding crap

@DisneyMillie

I think it’s fair enough if it’s no spaghetti straps as that’s a fairly standard workplace policy so doesn’t seem unreasonable but not because of it being distracting to boys - that’s just sexist nonsense

Exactly this. I’ve had to ask junior colleagues to cover up because their dress is inappropriate for work. This is no different.

Are the boys allowed to wear shorts?

Why do so many sixth forms insist on business dress, mine didn’t. These days most office workers can wear casual clothes. If we are preparing young people for work it should reflect the real world. Most will be off to uni and I don’t remember a dress code there.

But I don’t get the smart uniform thing at all, many schools have adopted blazers after having sweatshirts, I presume it’s trying to emulate private schools.

But I don’t get the smart uniform thing at all, many schools have adopted blazers after having sweatshirts, I presume it’s trying to emulate private schools

It’s about discipline and standards. Business dress is shorthand for appropriate clothing, not preparing for the working world.

I don't know what your problem is, why you've taken such an issue with me or why you've resorted to misquoting me and making things up but why not just stop eh?
It just a sad person with nothing better to do than be a pain.

discipline

What does discipline have to do with shoulders? This isn’t the army. Schools shouldn’t have pointless rules or feel the need to discipline through clothes anymore. It’s stupid.

If the teacher said the reason was because boys were distracted they were wrong.
On the other hand if they just said it's a distraction, they probably meant it's an unnecessary distraction for teachers to have to tell 6th formers off for wearing unsuitable clothes. I imagine a boy in a vest would be considered just as unsuitably dressed.

I concluded by saying that "if" this was a policy and "if" the responsibility for male thoughts and behaviour was being placed on female students then this was wrong.

I agree.
This is an excellent opportunity for the school to teach boys that girls/women wearing whatever they like is not a choice made for males' pleasure. If the boys are distracted they need to learn to manage that.

Our office also had a no bare shoulders policy.

YANBU OP. As you say, there is no mention of it in the dress code, the teacher is BU.

And honestly I don’t understand the “if it’s the rules then so be it”. Actually, no. There is nothing wrong with questioning rules IMO. There is absolutely nothing inappropriate about thin straps in an educational (or workplace for that matter) setting IMO. These rules are based off outdated sexist views. I’m not saying rules should be broken just because you don’t like them, but question them? Yes absolutely. I’d rather raise a child that questions things than blindly following.

Semi formal style outfit is the norm in our local college, the other 6th form school have a grown up business style version of the school uniform and it looks super smart.
Spaghetti straps are far too casual for school.

No girls in spaghetti straps. No boys in vests.

I agree with that. Not suitable for work or school (or work Teams calls - looking at you colleague who turns up to Teams calls in a yoga bra top)

[quote WildAboutMyPlanet]@MulticolourMophead there is no judgement from me on these things, just to make it clear! And I would never ask someone to cover up or change anything or not hire someone for these reasons, but for me, some of the things I wanted to do at that age were so cringe and awful, but I was the type who would have gone and done it on a whim without really thinking things through. It’s the tattoos mostly, plus I definitely had a nipple pierced too young (before I had properly grown) and its disfigured me for sure, not badly so, but enough. I’ve already had two tattoos covered and I plan on covering two more. I was still young and they haven’t aged well and I hate them now, but they would have been worse if I’d done all the things I originally wanted to! The guy who did my tattoo at 15 was in Camden, London. I did have fake ID which I had bought (I was a nightmare!) so it was a proper ‘card’ to be fair to him, but there is no way I looked 18![/quote]
Fair enough. But I think a 6th form isn't the place to enforce "business attire", that is something that can wait. I mean, I had hair dyes and piercings in 6th form, although I waited until I was 21 to get a tattoo, but there was always a "be free to be yourself" vibe about my 6th form that actually enhanced the whole learning bit for me.

@VinylDetective

But I don’t get the smart uniform thing at all, many schools have adopted blazers after having sweatshirts, I presume it’s trying to emulate private schools

It’s about discipline and standards. Business dress is shorthand for appropriate clothing, not preparing for the working world.

Sweatshirts and polo shirts are appropriate clothing.

So the schools that opted to switch to blazers, etc, have not done this to ensure appropriate clothing.

@MulticolourMophead I did say in my previous post that I wasn’t advocating business dress, just that I think a form of uniform can be a positive thing sometimes.

Sweatshirts and polo shirts are appropriate clothing

In your opinion.

I think the request was fine but the reason given wasn't.

My DD's school will send you home if your skirt goes above the crease of the knee. Then fast forward to Covid and the local area is full of school girls walking about in very mini skirts (skorts) as they now have to wear their PE kit. Makes me laugh.

Strappy tops and shoulder-baring weren't acceptable in my all-girls 6th form either. It was considered too casual. As it has been in 90% of my working life since (the exception was a tiny business where the (female) owner set the rules).

The most disciplined person I know, who is also by far the most professionally successful person I know, wear the same pair of ancient jeans or shorts every day, with a brightly coloured striped T-shirt or old jumper. He owns one suit which he only wears to go on Question Time or Newsnight or for high profile public events.