to be angry about 6th form's "shoulder's must be covered" policy

[randomname7208633]

I'm a dad of 4 (just putting that out there so there's no confusion) and this morning my dd (17) told me that yesterday, which was pretty hot here (not that that should matter,) she was told by a female member of staff that she had to either wear a coat all day or go home because her top had straps which made her shoulders visible.

Nothing else was uncovered and she was in no way indecent, she was just informed that shoulders had to be covered because otherwise (I know you can see this coming) it was "distracting to boys".

Apparently quite a few other girls were given the same warning that day (probably because it was the first really warm day since they'd been back to school and had all dressed according to the weather) and then a school wide announcement was made.

I've checked the uniform policy and there's no mention of it so I've emailed the school asking for clarification.

If this is indeed a policy that's being enforced I think it's ridiculous that female students are being made to dress in ways to suit male students. If a boy is distracted by girl's shoulders then the problem is with the boy! The messages this sends out just make me smh. It's 2020 and girls are having to think about how their clothes might make boys (and by extension, men) react. Argh!!!

@MillyMollyFarmer

Sorry, OP, I took your statement that you were off to work and wouldn’t be able to reply as meaning you wouldn’t be able to log into mumsnet while you were working, but I can see that you have been able to after all.

Oh would you get a life? These comments are pointless childish BS. He’ll reply when he can, so what?

Is that you, Mrs OP?

DD1 went to an American school. They had a strict dress code there that only seemed to apply to girls - eg shorts had to be mid thigh, no vest tops, no short skirts. Until I intervened, and complained, the boys used to get their washing done for them, whereas the girls had to do their own (boarding school).

Is that you, Mrs OP?

Oh grow up you fool.

[quote WildAboutMyPlanet]@hammeringinmyhead if I had been allowed to dress how I want as a teenager I would have ruined my hair and body with dyes and tattoos and piercings! As a result I did it when I was a bit older and now of course regret every hole and black line, but it isn’t as bad as it might have been if I had been allowed to do it during school! (Got my first tatt at 15 so age itself wasn’t an issue). Maybe I’m projecting my own idiocies onto younger people but I’m SO glad things were strict otherwise god knows what else I would have done![/quote]
You know what? I'm in my 50s, and have hair dyes, tattoos and piercings. And my employer values me for my work, not what I look like. I wear smart casual when in the office, but right now I'm in a sleeveless top, and cropped leggings with bare feet.

It's easy to work out what to wear and when.

Would be interesting to know which tattooist did your tattoo when you were 15. That's a tattooist I'd like to avoid.

Of course it's about degrees of modesty. Where would you draw the line? Boys in speedos and girls in string bikinis?

Universities and FE colleges don't usually have a uniform and I don't think many students would turn up ready for the beach, unless they are doing something like a life saving course.

@MillyMollyFarmer

Is that you, Mrs OP?

Oh grow up you fool.

You’re brilliant

School and university have a completely different dynamic as you well know. The students are younger for one thing, and in a well run sixth form, the students are aware that they are setting a standard for younger pupils.

Right, so now it’s about setting standards for younger pupils? An unrealistic standard of professional dress that most professions don’t adhere to. In school. That’s ok then.

Quite usual for sixth form and offices.

Dont be ridiculous @NameChange2PostThis really skimpy clothing is distracting, in both sexes and to both sexes. Which is probably why it is discouraged in the workplace.

@OiSortItOwt
Well do you want to see a hairy armpit in your eyeline when the sixth form boys put their hand up up answer a question? Ok on the beach or gym, but not in class.

There's a distinct difference between some items of clothing as "uncovered" shoulders.

Something like this - JL Dress - totally acceptable workplace outfit - in fact it's advertised as workwear.

Something like this - Jigsaw top - I would say is less acceptable. Male or female, revealing too much flesh isn't appropriate for a work or school environment (male equivalent = having too many shirt buttons undone, or tight fit t-shirts/shirts)

OP hasn't said which end of the spectrum his DD's top was but that's not the point here. The key factors of the matter here are:

• what was said about "distracting boys" - totally unacceptable
• the fact that it is "against policy" when not there is no (easily accessible) publicised policy that says this.

@randomname7208633 - I think you've approached this correctly in asking the school for clarity. If they repeat the "distracting boys" point (which tbh they'd be bonkers to!), then you can go in all guns blazing.

I haven't voted because:

YANBU to be angry if "distracting to boys" was cited as the reason for the policy. Also, YANBU to be angry if your daughter was sent home due to a policy that is not actually listed as part of the dress code.

But YABU to expect strappy tops to be part of sixth form attire. I don't think it is smart enough for boys or girls to show their shoulders at school, so therefore the policy itself is not sexist, but it MUST be written into the dress code and girls MUST NOT be warned about "distracting boys" in this way.

My daughter goes to an all girls school and is also not allowed to wear strappy tops. It’s school and needs to have a level of formality - save the strappy tops for the weekend.

Yes, YABU if your DD’s top broke the dress code.

You and DD are NBU to be pissed off and complain if the teacher actually used the ‘distracting to boys’ argument.

Well, DD is U, given her age!

Mid to late 90's 6th former and no such rules existed about professional attire and I'm glad as it is expensive to kit yourself out with clothes that you don't really want and clothes (you do want) where you can express your creativity and connect to your tribe at that age.

I don't work in one particular school but find it frustrating and pedestrian to have to buy clothes that I can work in a school setting in, when my architect DH who is on triple my income can pretty much wear what he wants!

Smart dress is required at my DS's sixth form. I wouldn't wear strappy tops to work.

@TheClawww

If that's the schools policy, your daughter should have been wearing clothes that abided by that. She would have been fine in a t-shirt. Lesson to be learned about picking weather appropriate clothing.

Okay yeah if it's the schools policy but even if it is that's ridiculous, shoulders are not distracting remotely and it's on the boys to focus on school work and the school need to stop making girls out to be bloody 'tempting the boys' when all they've done is get dressed for the weather

@froggygoneacourting, yes, thank you! I grew up in a country with no school uniforms, and we wore strappy tops in summer. I remember one of my friends asking our Y7 teacher if she (friend) could come to school in a bikini. The teacher said she could, but would she really want to? My friend never did, having concluded everyone would make fun of her. I think that giving kids/girls more leeway to express themselves through their clothes means that just dressing in skimpy clothing as a way to stand out loses some of its appeal.

@MulticolourMophead there is no judgement from me on these things, just to make it clear! And I would never ask someone to cover up or change anything or not hire someone for these reasons, but for me, some of the things I wanted to do at that age were so cringe and awful, but I was the type who would have gone and done it on a whim without really thinking things through. It’s the tattoos mostly, plus I definitely had a nipple pierced too young (before I had properly grown) and its disfigured me for sure, not badly so, but enough. I’ve already had two tattoos covered and I plan on covering two more. I was still young and they haven’t aged well and I hate them now, but they would have been worse if I’d done all the things I originally wanted to! The guy who did my tattoo at 15 was in Camden, London. I did have fake ID which I had bought (I was a nightmare!) so it was a proper ‘card’ to be fair to him, but there is no way I looked 18!

[quote AlwaysLatte]@OiSortItOwt
Well do you want to see a hairy armpit in your eyeline when the sixth form boys put their hand up up answer a question? Ok on the beach or gym, but not in class. [/quote]
Its not just boys with hairy armpits

Dress codes exist mainly to control what women wear They are far more restrictive than they are for men, especially those which define jewellery, make up, shoe types etc.

This is rubbish sorry. Men get to wear shirt tie trousers and blazer and if they want to push the boat out a waistcoat.

In hot weather they can take the blazer off and use short sleeve shirts. Everywhere I've ever worked women have far more choice and variety in what they can wear at work.

op has repeatedly stated there is no dress code about the shoulders so why is everyone waffling on about his daughter breaking the dress code?

@Porcupineinwaiting

Dont be ridiculous *@NameChange2PostThis* really skimpy clothing is distracting, in both sexes and to both sexes. Which is probably why it is discouraged in the workplace.

Hahahahaha Just a reminder: the OPs daughter was wearing an outfit that showed bare shoulders, not a thong with a peephole bikini top.

And if employees can’t focus on their work because they find their colleagues’ clothes distracting, they should seek support for their inability to concentrate.

What the hell is wrong with shoulders on display? I wear shell tops at work under a jacket and strip the jacket off when it warms up. There is nothing unprofessional about it. Ive added a photo of similar styles and they all have visible shoulders.