To want coronavirus to just run it’s course now and get back to normal

[rosieposiepud]

For most of us, we’ll have a cold/feel quite rough for a few days. Dc will barely be effected yet MN is obsessed with shutting schools again. There may be many more deaths from coronavirus still to come, but they’ll be lot’s of deaths from other causes plus massive long term devastation to the economy etc if we carry on like this.

@Notonthestairs

I'm finding it fascinating to see the influx of new MNers, many of whom only post threads about CV - and so many joining in with similarly short, single interest, posting histories.

Anyway I'll stick to taking my advice regarding Cv from Chris Witty.

Okay you can continue to blindly follow the advice of the government advisor. If he told you Covid hovered 3ft above the ground, I bet you'd walk around on your hands and knees because the govt instructed you to.

Meanwhile, those of us with an IQ of over 85 will continue to use our common sense and take advice from a variety of sources.

The scientific community is FAR from a consensus regarding Covid 19.

"1% of the population is about 700,000. We're not even close to that figure and never will be."

Yes, because we locked down and people following the guidance protected the vulnerable and people for whom the guidance was too much trouble.

"Why don't we have a permanent lockdown forever in order to protect the vulnerable and reduce deaths?"

Well we don't have to do we. We locked down when cases were doubling every two days. Now we're at manageable levels we can cautiously lift restrictions.

"If that's too much for you, why not lockdown every winter to prevent the tens of thousand of flu deaths we see each year?"

We have herd protection and immunity from flu. Covid would lead to significantly higher numbers of deaths.

"Nah, sorry. We're having a gathering next month for my grandma's 80th birthday. There will be quite a few people there. How does it feel knowing an 80 year old woman has more backbone than yourself?"

Well I've been working throughout so my backbone is intact.

I also have a heart and will do everything I can to keep other people safe.

Watch your nan though. The care home in our town recently lost someone of a similar age because she refused to socially distance when her family visited.

@rawlikesushi

"1% of the population is about 700,000. We're not even close to that figure and never will be."

Yes, because we locked down and people following the guidance protected the vulnerable and people for whom the guidance was too much trouble.

Sweden did not lockdown. Has 1% of their population died from Covid?

The evidence is not on your side.

"Meanwhile, those of us with an IQ of over 85 will continue to use our common sense and take advice from a variety of sources."

What are your credentials please? Is it perhaps, School of Hard Knocks and the University of Life? The slack-jawed idiots on our local fb pages spout this shit too. If you cba looking at their profile, just incase they are a world-class virologist, you are usually met with the above.

I would love for life to return to normal. I don't think I could cope with another lockdown and home schooling again. My dad had a heart attack then surgery during lockdown and his follow up care has been as good as can be provided but it's shit. I understand why but telephone follow ups with the hospital just aren't enough. I think a lot of people will die as hospitals are unable to provide adequate care for non Covid illnesses.
Children and young adults are missing out on so much of what should be exciting times in their lives.
People's mental health is going to suffer again, domestic abuse victims will suffer and these are areas where cuts have been made but lockdown will increase the need for them.
I hate it.

@Vinorosso74

I would love for life to return to normal. I don't think I could cope with another lockdown and home schooling again. My dad had a heart attack then surgery during lockdown and his follow up care has been as good as can be provided but it's shit. I understand why but telephone follow ups with the hospital just aren't enough. I think a lot of people will die as hospitals are unable to provide adequate care for non Covid illnesses. Children and young adults are missing out on so much of what should be exciting times in their lives. People's mental health is going to suffer again, domestic abuse victims will suffer and these are areas where cuts have been made but lockdown will increase the need for them. I hate it.

I don't get your rationale. How would your father's care be better if there wasn't a lockdown? If hospitals were full of patients with Covid he would have less chance of treatment, not more.

"Sweden did not lockdown. Has 1% of their population died from Covid?

The evidence is not on your side."

You are aware that Sweden has already been discussed several times on this thread?

They didn't lockdown. They issued similar guidance and restrictions, and their population adhered to them voluntarily.

Guess they've got a lower % of people like yourself.

@rawlikesushi

"Nah, sorry. We're having a gathering next month for my grandma's 80th birthday. There will be quite a few people there. How does it feel knowing an 80 year old woman has more backbone than yourself?"

Well I've been working throughout so my backbone is intact.

I also have a heart and will do everything I can to keep other people safe.

Watch your nan though. The care home in our town recently lost someone of a similar age because she refused to socially distance when her family visited.

I very much doubt you'd "do everything you can to keep people safe"...

Would you stop driving? There's a small chance you'd hit someone and kill them.

Would you stop going outside in winter? There's a chance you might pass the flu onto somebody vulnerable.

Twenty brits die every year from falling out of their beds. Would you make your kids sleep on the floor to avoid this?

My grandma will be fine, thanks. She accepts that, at her age, she's vulnerable to a number of diseases (not just COVID), and that you can't stop living your life as a result of this.

Sweden did not lockdown. Has 1% of their population died from Covid?

They may not have had an enforced lockdown but that certainly doesn't mean everyone carried on as normal. Universities were shut, high schools are shut, people worked at home and far fewer went to pubs and restaurants. The difference between them and us is that they followed the guidance without it being enforced and they have a better healthcare system so weren't worried that hospitals would be unable to cope.

By run it’s course I mean treat it as we do flu, ie staying off work and taking the precautions we do if we have any other contagious virus

It's not flu. It's a different, more deadly and far more contagious virus that we have no immunity to. Ebola also has flu like symptoms as do many many other illnesses of varying degrees of severity. I vote for listening to the experts on this one and won't be stomping my feet while the NHS has a horrendous winter because I wanted to throw a birthday party for my child.

People who say, let those who are vulnerable shield are basically saying they want things back to normal but are happy for some to still suffer in order for that to be achieved.

The majority of people (I know some are less fortunate) are back at work and can socialise far more than we could in april. Arguing about the economy and the effect on cancer patients at the moment is nonsensical as we are no longer in lockdown. If we don't follow the rule of six and the various other guidelines we do then risk another lockdown but at the moment we are not in lockdown so I'm not sure what you are complaining about.

@gje943 Sweden asked everyone over 70 to avoid social contact. You seem to like following what Sweden did but are doing the complete opposite by holding a big party for your grandma's 80th

@Belladonna12

Sweden did not lockdown. Has 1% of their population died from Covid?

They may not have had an enforced lockdown but that certainly doesn't mean everyone carried on as normal. Universities were shut, high schools are shut, people worked at home and far fewer went to pubs and restaurants. The difference between them and us is that they followed the guidance without it being enforced and they have a better healthcare system so weren't worried that hospitals would be unable to cope.

There is absolutely ZERO actual evidence for the efficacy of lockdowns versus herd immunity.

Are you aware that prevalence of mask wearing is extremely low in Sweden? That doesn't fit your narrative, does it..

If lockdowns worked, you'd see lower death rates in countries with the most severe lockdowns. One such country is Peru. They've had the strictest lockdown of any country and yet have one of the highest death rates. How do you explain that one to me?

Are you aware that prevalence of mask wearing is extremely low in Sweden? That doesn't fit your narrative, does it...

@rawlikesushi

"Why don't we have a permanent lockdown forever in order to protect the vulnerable and reduce deaths?"

Well we don't have to do we. We locked down when cases were doubling every two days. Now we're at manageable levels we can cautiously lift restrictions.

That doesn't answer my question at all.

Locking down would undoubtedly reduce the number of deaths we experience every year (not just from Covid). Fewer road deaths, fewer accidents at work, fewer disease transmissions etc etc.

If preventing death is of the utmost importance, why would you not advocate for a permanent lockdown?

@rawlikesushi

"If that's too much for you, why not lockdown every winter to prevent the tens of thousand of flu deaths we see each year?"

We have herd protection and immunity from flu. Covid would lead to significantly higher numbers of deaths.

You've shown yourself up there.

Locking down every winter would reduce deaths from flu, regardless of herd immunity and protection. If you care so much about the vulnerable, why would you not support a regular winter lockdown?

@gje943 I read an article the other day saying many Swedish people were buying masks

Doing some reading last night (staticians discussing the nature of “curves” of different kinds of viruses, history and geography of same) I learned something interesting.
The scientific community are of course interested in exploring the graphs to see why Sweden’s mortality rates were higher than Norway and Denmark (and Iceland but that’s different again).
What they discovered was that the previous flu season had also affected these countries very differently in that Sweden had a much, much lower mortality rate and therefore there were many people still living that would perhaps normally not have survived. In fact the numbers in Sweden balanced out against the numbers in the other Nordic countries, but over two years rather than one.
I found this very interesting indeed.

Oh gie I don't know where to begin with so much nonsense. It's scary that you believe it but I doubt anyone will change your mind so I'm not going to bother trying.

The answer to lots of your questions is - because it is a disease never before seen in the human population and warrants special action, and that it kills about 1% of people who get it.

If 1/100 cars suffered fatal crashes, we'd probably rethink using them too.

The UK has about 10,000 deaths pa from flu whereas over 40,000 died from Covid in just a few months.

It is unique and requires a unique response. We can't eradicate all risk but we can take steps to minimise risk, in all things. Saying people with underlying illnesses, pregnant people, overweight people, elderly people should take their chances so you don't have to wear a mask or whatever it is you're objecting to is abhorrent to me but of course you won't care, it's not really your way is it.

*statiticians

@CilantroChili thats quite interesting and shows we cannot compare all figures like for like and many things will take years to understand , until lots of figures and factors are taken into account , we are learning day by day

@rawlikesushi where do you gwt that uk has about 10000 deaths from flu per year i have reaf the average is higher than this but can have a bad year and a year where there are a lot less deaths it can be very variable

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@rawlikesushi where do you gwt that uk has about 10000 deaths from flu per year i have reaf the average is higher than this but can have a bad year and a year where there are a lot less deaths it can be very variable [/quote]
My local authority NHS page.

www.greenwichccg.nhs.uk/News-Publications/news/Pages/Around-10,000-deaths-are-caused-by-flu-each-year-in-England-and-Wales.aspx