To want coronavirus to just run it’s course now and get back to normal

[rosieposiepud]

For most of us, we’ll have a cold/feel quite rough for a few days. Dc will barely be effected yet MN is obsessed with shutting schools again. There may be many more deaths from coronavirus still to come, but they’ll be lot’s of deaths from other causes plus massive long term devastation to the economy etc if we carry on like this.

As I said, it's fine, you go first
The newer swine flu vaccines don't have that issue

We moved from the uk earlier in the year and experienced the late lockdown, lack of border closures etc. We have moved to.a country with strict border controls, compulsory mask wearing etc. where the lockdown had been complete. There are still measures in place and the borders are still closed but the country is mostly back to normal. Perhaps actually taking the more draconian measures is the better option. We've been told the borders here are unlikely to open until 2021 but schools are back properly,everyone is back to normal and the covid rates here weekly are less than 1 day in the uk so I guess it's working!

Oh and the track and trace is enforced everywhere you go and everyone must have it on their device and check in alongside temperature checks and hand sanitation or no entry.

It’s quite weird to insinuate everyone else doesn’t want to go back to normal, when we all do.
We just don’t want to do it at the price of thousands of deaths.

Call me sanctimonious but please take into consideration any one of those deaths can be any one of us , and it’s strikes me as a tad necromaniac to think that’s less important than the frustrated feelings of some

I wish I could but I will likely die if I get it. I am also alarmed with quite a few stories about how people are being affected long term with cardiac and neurological issues, even with mild cases

@chunkymonkey101

Oh and the track and trace is enforced everywhere you go and everyone must have it on their device and check in alongside temperature checks and hand sanitation or no entry.

I was in a coffee shop earlier. They had a QR code displayed for people to scan to register for Track & Trace. I sat there for an hour and didn't see a single person scanning it.

Well even if we don’t get a vaccine the virus is likely to run its course at some point like many have historically. I think that we do need to get back to some sort of normality though. The mental health ramifications of this will go on for a generation and seem to be vastly under addressed in this. The thousands trapped in care homes kept apart from their loved ones in their final months/years. Those suffering from dementia facing a decline in cognitive ability alone, those who are non-verbal denied the touch of their families - this alone is enough to destroy families and their mental health.

I think the most vulnerable should be given support to continue to shield If they want to, visits to care homes should be allowed, with special rules in place where touch is the only form of communication hand washing, sanitising things, limited numbers in non Covid secure locations. Would be the way forward.

We can all help by trying to go about business in a safe and sensible manner. I think the current policies are generally good, they just need some tweaking to help with mental health.

I don't think there is anyone who doesn't want to get back to normal but we can't always have what we want, can we? If by "run its course" you mean that coronavirus should just be allowed to run through the population killing whoever it naturally will, which is okay because it won't kill "most of us" YABU.

@Lifeisgenerallyfun

Well even if we don’t get a vaccine the virus is likely to run its course at some point like many have historically. I think that we do need to get back to some sort of normality though. The mental health ramifications of this will go on for a generation and seem to be vastly under addressed in this. The thousands trapped in care homes kept apart from their loved ones in their final months/years. Those suffering from dementia facing a decline in cognitive ability alone, those who are non-verbal denied the touch of their families - this alone is enough to destroy families and their mental health.

I think the most vulnerable should be given support to continue to shield If they want to, visits to care homes should be allowed, with special rules in place where touch is the only form of communication hand washing, sanitising things, limited numbers in non Covid secure locations. Would be the way forward.

We can all help by trying to go about business in a safe and sensible manner. I think the current policies are generally good, they just need some tweaking to help with mental health.

Our local care home started allowing visits again recently, with strict measures in place - visits took place outside, social distancing, sanitising.

Visitors did not always comply and many residents didn't either - some said they'd rather take the risk than miss out on hugging their children. They had positive Covid cases in the first two weeks of allowing visits and they've stopped again now - through an open window only.

@rosieposiepud

For most of us, we’ll have a cold/feel quite rough for a few days. Dc will barely be effected yet MN is obsessed with shutting schools again. There may be many more deaths from coronavirus still to come, but they’ll be lot’s of deaths from other causes plus massive long term devastation to the economy etc if we carry on like this.

My kids could very well lose their mummy if I catch it, but hey, you're ok. Condemn my children to a life missing their mum, your kids will be fine. They've already brought a cold home from school, after just a week there, which they've given to me, rendering me out of action and back on steroids.

Children might not be affected through being ill, but there are millions who will be affected if they lose a parent or have a parent unwell long term.

The bedwetting is off the scale on Mumsnet. Lockdown has killed more than the virus and destroyed so many lives.

@FizzAfterSix deliberately goady or you've not read the 6 pages of thread presumably ?

Interesting that you're willing to gamble the lives of others but not your own. Fucknuggetery at its finest.

[quote alittleprivacy]**@easterwedding* You literally just made all that up - none of that is fact or a certainty. Would be great if it was.*

No I didn't. PfizerBiontech are expecting to make a statement in the next 3-4 weeks about their Phase 3 trials. And now that OxfordAstraZeneca has resumed their trial they are expected to announce results in a similar timeframe. The timeframe for mass vaccination that I've given is that outlined by the WHO at their 4/9 press briefing which I watched in full. The expected timeline for a vaccine is very, very soon. Get you news from the source, not the mainstream media.

@firstevernamechange There is a reason that it normally takes years to develop a safe vaccine. We might be lucky and enough ressources and volunteers will enable us to get a safe vaccine out much quicker than normal, but this is far from guaranteed.

That's nonsense spouted by people who think they are educated on this subject but haven't been following what is actually happening on the vaccine front. The fastest a vaccine has ever been developed is under 5 months. And the front runners for this vaccine while the specificity is had to be adapted, are adapted vaccines that were being developed for SARS and MERS. There are respectively 17 and 8 years of research behind these vaccines. The processes through which we can trigger an immune response are over a decade old. They just weren't needed until now. It's largely the vector process which had to be developed and refined. Such as the Cansino Ad5 vector, which despite it's now known drawbacks in over 55s, has been used for mass vaccination of the Chinese military for over 10 weeks now. Or the use of Sinopharm's inactivated whole virus, which has also been used in Chinese mass vaccinations for 10 weeks. And as absolutely controversial as Sputnik is, the use of Ad5 as an initial vector with Ad26 as a booster will be extremely interesting to see the results of. The issue of pre-existing antibody response to and Ad vector is one of the main issues.

Our two best candidates, O/AZ uses an chimpanzee Ad in order side-step this and thankfully looks safe. Though the efficacy of the vector in boosters is still up for question. While the RNA vector being used by P/Bt, is completely brand new and will almost certainly form the basis of the vaccine we use in the future. Because no matter which vaccines we start using first, history tells us over time the process will be refined and in time we will use the better technology.[/quote]
Thanks for this :)

@FizzAfterSix

The bedwetting is off the scale on Mumsnet. Lockdown has killed more than the virus and destroyed so many lives.

How do you calculate that it has killed more than the virus?

In terms of years of life lost, FizzAfterSix has a point. Of course every life is precious, but a 90 year old dying of covid might have lost a year of life, whereas a 30 year old whose condition is now terminal might have lost fifty or sixty years. This is a simplified version, but statisticians are already working on years of life lost to lockdown. Their findings will be sobering I should think.

I've considered suicide almost every day since lockdown was announced, if things aren't better after winter I won't want to be here anymore.

[quote alittleprivacy]**@easterwedding* You literally just made all that up - none of that is fact or a certainty. Would be great if it was.*

No I didn't. PfizerBiontech are expecting to make a statement in the next 3-4 weeks about their Phase 3 trials. And now that OxfordAstraZeneca has resumed their trial they are expected to announce results in a similar timeframe. The timeframe for mass vaccination that I've given is that outlined by the WHO at their 4/9 press briefing which I watched in full. The expected timeline for a vaccine is very, very soon. Get you news from the source, not the mainstream media.

@firstevernamechange There is a reason that it normally takes years to develop a safe vaccine. We might be lucky and enough ressources and volunteers will enable us to get a safe vaccine out much quicker than normal, but this is far from guaranteed.

That's nonsense spouted by people who think they are educated on this subject but haven't been following what is actually happening on the vaccine front. The fastest a vaccine has ever been developed is under 5 months. And the front runners for this vaccine while the specificity is had to be adapted, are adapted vaccines that were being developed for SARS and MERS. There are respectively 17 and 8 years of research behind these vaccines. The processes through which we can trigger an immune response are over a decade old. They just weren't needed until now. It's largely the vector process which had to be developed and refined. Such as the Cansino Ad5 vector, which despite it's now known drawbacks in over 55s, has been used for mass vaccination of the Chinese military for over 10 weeks now. Or the use of Sinopharm's inactivated whole virus, which has also been used in Chinese mass vaccinations for 10 weeks. And as absolutely controversial as Sputnik is, the use of Ad5 as an initial vector with Ad26 as a booster will be extremely interesting to see the results of. The issue of pre-existing antibody response to and Ad vector is one of the main issues.

Our two best candidates, O/AZ uses an chimpanzee Ad in order side-step this and thankfully looks safe. Though the efficacy of the vector in boosters is still up for question. While the RNA vector being used by P/Bt, is completely brand new and will almost certainly form the basis of the vaccine we use in the future. Because no matter which vaccines we start using first, history tells us over time the process will be refined and in time we will use the better technology.[/quote]
I don’t understand all of this exactly but it sounds like you do, and it all sounds pretty encouraging. I do have contacts in the NIH through work and this fits well with the timeline they’ve implied to me.

@FizzAfterSix

The bedwetting is off the scale on Mumsnet. Lockdown has killed more than the virus and destroyed so many lives.

You're crackers if you think that the alternative to lockdown was anything resembling normality.

@kittensarecute

I've considered suicide almost every day since lockdown was announced, if things aren't better after winter I won't want to be here anymore.

And that's a shit place to be

But how much better would your mental health be if you lost loved ones, saw ambulances regularly taking people away from your street (or worse - mortuary vans), couldn't access services because with vulnerable staff shielding there weren't enough people to run them, had refuse stacking up at your door because local authority workers weren't willing to be put at risk.

It's really really shit, but the alternative to restriction is chaos, not normality.

@FizzAfterSix

The bedwetting is off the scale on Mumsnet. Lockdown has killed more than the virus and destroyed so many lives.

Another one who doesn't understand exponential maths. It's depressing.

My kids could very well lose their mummy if I catch it, but hey, you're ok. Condemn my children to a life missing their mum, your kids will be fine

My dad was blue lighted to hospital today after taking an overdose because of restrictions placed upon him due to the "rule of 6" (mentioned in my post on an earlier page)....but hey as long as your family are ok then no worries.

Surely one alternative to restriction is Sweden. They have normality and a death rate below that of the UK.

@Flyonawalk

In terms of years of life lost, FizzAfterSix has a point. Of course every life is precious, but a 90 year old dying of covid might have lost a year of life, whereas a 30 year old whose condition is now terminal might have lost fifty or sixty years. This is a simplified version, but statisticians are already working on years of life lost to lockdown. Their findings will be sobering I should think.

Do you think the treatment of the 30yo would have been better if we hadn't locked down and the NHS had been overwhelmed?

@Flyonawalk

Surely one alternative to restriction is Sweden. They have normality and a death rate below that of the UK.

They're also not the UK.

Saying that what works in another country would work here is a bit like telling a doctor that you don't want a treatment package tailored to you (your weight, health status, sex, age etc) but are happy to just have whatever Derek-from-work had for his condition - because if his treatment worked for him it's bound to work for you too.