AIBU to think my sister is being an idiot?

[Rainbowsandpotsofgold]

Ok so my darling sister (29) is pregnant with her 1st baby after trying for 2 years. Shes decided she wants an elective c section ...no medical reason...she does suffer with fibromyalgia but so do me and my mum (2 natural births each).

Shes made this decision based on
A) She's afraid of a long labour ( I was 15 having my eldest while living at home, was in slow labour for 5 days and 17hours active labour but my daughter was born stargazing which wasnt picked up until she was coming out)
B) She doesn't want to tear ( no idea where this fear has come from 🤷‍♀️)

My argument is that...

1. Recovery from surgery can take longer for fibro sufferers
2. Anaesthetic/ epidurals don't work as well on us either
3. She lives 30 miles away from us, near her husband's family and knowing my sister, she will expect us ( our mum at least) to be there every day ( mum has fibro, ms and 2 Foster kids of school age plus my elderly grandparents who we both care for)
4. With all the uncertainty regarding covid, she will possibly be in hospital alone for a few days after the birth
5. After trying for so long I dont understand why she wouldn't at least want to try a natural birth?

She's a nightmare to try and talk to and once she's made a decision (even bad ones) she wont change her mind (typically baby of the family syndrome - brat)

Just to add...I will be showing her the replies as she is refusing to listen to me, my mum or my gran (who has had a natural birth and a c section...50 years ago but I dont think the basics have changed)

AIBU to think shes being an utter idiot in thinking a c section is the 'easiest' (her words) option?

Hope this has been an eye-opener @Rainbowsandpotsofgold ?

Your sister is just shy of 30 years old and is having a baby with her husband.

You assume she'll need your Mum and you to show her the way but I'm pretty sure the pair of them will work it out between them, or can only women look after babies?

If she's too sore to do much, then the baby's Dad is there. That's what Dads do. They share the care.

Currently her body, her choice. In a few months, their baby, their choice. At no point do you, your mum or your grandma get a say.

I'm sure if she wants your opinion then she knows where to come.

Typical Bossy Older Sister who thinks she has a God-given right to dictate to her younger sister based on her own experience syndrome.

How dare you try to impose your view on your sister? Showing her this thread to influence her choice? Appalling bullying behaviour.

As for the issues involved, I've seen many friends who have had traumatic 'natural' births, with tears, forceps and incontinence problems as well as birth trauma for the baby, and emergency c sections. My first was 'normal' delivery, with episiotomy needing deep stitches and was excruciatingly painful for over a week, second an emergency c section and the third a planned, calm c section. Plenty of home support and a quick recovery. The surgery isn't any worse than appendectomy and not major abdominal surgery. My wound is quite small. The best was the last planned section.

Leave your sister to make her own decisions, I am sure she has done her research.

Quite frankly, if my sister who got pregnant at 15 had the temerity to have a go at me about my considered birth choice after I got pregnant at 29, I'd either laugh her out the door or tear her a new one.

I dread to think of all the 'helpful advice' you will be dolling out to her once the baby arrives...

The surgery isn't any worse than appendectomy and not major abdominal surgery.

I disagree, I had my appendix out & the recovery was easier vs CS plus I had no baby to look after but I was also kept in hospital on morphine for 4 days with the appendix. A CS is major surgery.

No she's not being an idiot, she's doing what she feels is right. Not sure why you think you get an opinion on this.

I can’t get over the fact that you, your mum, and your gran had a conversation with your sister about how she’d give birth before she was even pregnant, knowing she was struggling to conceive. It took me over two years to get pregnant, and having to sit through a conversation like that while knowing I might never have my own child would have been so upsetting. Especially coming from people who are supposed to love and care for me. What a nasty thing to do.

I wonder how much of this is about control? You had a baby at 15, had a horrible labour experience (and I agree with the PP who said witnessing that might have put your sister off childbirth), and I expect your mum took over a lot with your baby so you could go back to school. Now your daughter is 18 and becoming independent - what do you do now when you’ve spent all your adult like being a mum? And there’s your ‘baby sister’ desperately in need of advice. Except she’s not, because she’s an adult with a supportive partner, her own house, her own income, and doesn’t need to be told what to do.

As so many people have said, it’s her body, and her choice.

Nothing to do with you.

She's old enough to make her own decisions, and if I grew up in such an overbearing family, I'd probably do the opposite to their wishes just to spite them!

@Rainbowsandpotsofgold YABVVVVVVVU

Yesterday you said I've called her an idiot because she is refusing to listen to any advice, experiences (good or bad) she has closed off any other options
Actually that’s what YOU appear to be doing. Does that make you an idiot?

I’ve had a VB - both of us nearly died, breastfeeding was curtailed due to injuries, I was in hospital for 2 weeks, still have injuries. I’ve had a ELC - calm, peaceful, beautiful, healthy baby skin to skin and breastfeeding within minutes, home after 3 days, driving after 2 weeks. But do I tell everyone to have a CS? No because my experience means shit to them. It’s irrelevant. They don’t have my body. They are not giving birth to my babies

I am not your sister. You are not your sister. She’s not a brat or a baby; she’s a pregnant woman who (unless this is the ultimate drip feed and she has severe SEN) is perfectly capable of making life choices. Stop hectoring and bullying her into choosing yours.

Back off lady.

It's her choice. She doesn't need a reason and it's none of your business tbh. If you and your mum cant help her then tell her so. Bit of a non issue tbh.

Bit cruel to show her replies on the thread where you've said she's being an idiot. You actually sound more like a brat there.

I never said it was hmm. I'm not knocking c sections, or any other intervention at all. Just m00Ma's claim that c sections are as 'natural' as vaginal births.

And my point is that, thankfully, very few vaginal births are ‘natural’ these days either. How many women in the U.K. have vaginal births with absolutely no intervention, pain relief, medication, stitching, monitoring, water baths, injections etc? Virtually none! So it doesn’t make sense to set up vaginal births and caesarians as a natural v unnatural dichotomy. Almost all births in the U.K. these days are ‘unnatural’ in some way.

[quote Shmithecat2]@m00Ma

C sections are not natural.[/quote]
You know what, neither is cancer treatment or antibiotics, but noone who needs it or wants it is shamed, is it? Neither is living in a house made of concrete, but am sure you dont live in a cave either.

YABU. She is not your 'baby' sister, she's a fully grown adult woman who is entitled to make her own medical decisions. She doesn't have to justify anything to anyone, least of all you.

Mind your own fucking business

Op you sound hideous. You are really not helping yourself.

If you really care about your sister you will tell her that you love her, support her, understand that she is different to you. Ask her to do her research and then respect her.

Then she might acutely want to talk to you about it.

The only birth you get a say in, is your own

I'd never choose a csection due to a needle phobia and it's surgery but it's 100% her body, her birth, her choice and if that's what she wants, more power to her.hope she stands her ground

It's none of your business. Her choice. It is nothing to do with you.

If you don't want to help out much afterwards that's your choice, just don't do it. Simples.

I actually can't believe you're posting on an Internet forum about someone else's birth choice.... your poor sister you seem like a control freak. Your sister is an adult, you are not responsible for her. Butt out.

Erm no.

Go look up the data on this.

Pelvic floor muscles can be damaged due to pregnancy rather than childbirth itself. However a VB is more likely to cause pelvic floor damage and long term problems. Incontinence after giving birth is much more common in women who have had a VB than a ELCS. Particularly anal incontinence. An ELCS does not protect women completely from it but it certainly has less risk.

Nonsense. The vast majority of natural births are without complications. A caesarean is a major procedure. It cuts into muscle. Unless there are risks for mum or baby, or the mum has a genuine psychological terror of giving birth, then it's totally unnecessary and no it won't make your pelvic floor muscle any stronger. Because let's face it, some women are probably choosing elective surgery for that reason alone and they are misguided. I would also resent it paid for by the NHS

As for breast feeding, a CS can delay milk coming it but this is less common with an ELCS than an EMCS and usually isnt a problem at all. This is because its the removal of the placenta that triggers milk production not the method of birth.

That wasn't my point. My point was that breastfeeding also helps the mums body recover and get back into shape quicker.

Anesthesia can interfere with hormone production but this tends to be a problem with general anesthetic rather than local anesthetic - so this is more of an issue if you have a crash EMCS rather than a calm ELCS. A traumatic birth can also contribute to the problem, as it means you produce more adrenaline which inhibits the production of oxytocin which is the hormone which stimilates milk production.

A natural birth for the vast majority of women is not this traumatic

Therefore a nice calm ELCS under local anesthetic isnt comparible yet we get these stupid meaningless statistics because ELCS are lumped together with EMCS.

A nice calm birth? Are you selling elective caesareans or something?

In America you can buy any kind of surgery you want if you have enough money and women are wrongly given the impression that a natural birth, and breastfeeding, will ruin their figure. It won't.

Its infuriating reading posts like this one which spout incorrect utter nonsense.

Yet you dont seem to actually disagree with anything I said in my previous post.

It's my opinion, you're infuriated by it. Sorry about that but here we are

The OP is being unfairly piled on here for saying elective caesareans are, in her opinion, unnecessary and that she should mind her own business, but women have strong options about these things and why not. But this the world of mumsnet, where if anyone dares have a strong opinion on natural births , or breastfeeding or very young babies being placed in nursery, then god help them

People really feel qualified to give their opinions not share factual correct information.

Wobetide any woman having an opinion on childbirth and child rearing eh?

OP your family dynamic sounds quite weird and it sounds like you have totally not noticed that your sister is now a grown up. While yes of course you still love her to the moon and back, it’s no longer your job to police her life or make her decisions for her. You and the rest of the family treat her like a baby, so she behaves like a baby, and that’s really unhealthy.

About the birth, if she’s only 16 weeks and has yet to discuss this with any medical professionals then I think you’re worrying about nothing tbh, and the more you make a big deal out of it the more she’ll dig in. It’s honestly not your choice to make or your job to influence her. Take a deep breath and trust that your sister and medical professionals will jointly make the right choice for her. You don’t know what the future hold for her, you can’t control it and you can’t protect her from the dangers of birth. Your only job in this situation is to manage your own worries privately, support her, and treat her like a grown up. That includes being clear and honest about how much help it’s fair for her to expect from you and your mum. As others have said, if you push her into a decision and the birth goes terribly wrong she will never forgive you.

I had a elective c section, the first three days were horrific, but it got better very quickly and by the third week I felt fine. Your fears for her are out of all proportion, you don’t know what the outcome will be either way and you need to accept that and make your peace with it. You are bullying your sister to help you manage your own fears for her by trying to feel like you’re doing something active, and getting some control of a scary situation that actually, you can’t control at all and nor should you be trying to.

Nothing to do with you. You need to take a step back

Her birth, her business.

If it turns out to be a complete disaster, well, she'll learn for the future.

Nonsense. The vast majority of natural births are without complications. A caesarean is a major procedure. It cuts into muscle. Unless there are risks for mum or baby, or the mum has a genuine psychological terror of giving birth, then it's totally unnecessary and no it won't make your pelvic floor muscle any stronger. Because let's face it, some women are probably choosing elective surgery for that reason alone and they are misguided. I would also resent it paid for by the NHS

Whilst you are at it, look up abdominable muscles and pelvic floor muscles and the difference between them...

Also look up what NICE have said that the cost of an ELCS in their recommendations on this subject after looking at the scientific evidence and the impact on both physical and mental health. It isn't signicantly higher than a planned VB especially when you start to look up the long term costs of incontinence caused by childbirth. It didn't even look up other possible long term side effects of a VB. They used incontinence as it was one of the most common long term problems - but also said that birth trauma was a significant and costly problem though didn't do a cost analysis on this (can't think why)...

...then I might START to take you seriously.

I'm not in the business of selling an ELCS. It absoluetely isn't the right thing for a lot of people. What I object to is ideological bollocks that hasn't looked up what the relevant medical bodies have said on the subject and think is the best course of action under certain circumstances for individual cases. Instead we just get this bullshit that somehow women choosing an ELCS are somehow 'ignorant', 'selfish', 'uninformed', 'costing the NHS too much', 'putting their unborn child at risk', 'harming the health of their unborn baby', 'will fail to be able to breastfeed', 'too posh' and a world of other misgynostic utter fucking bollocks.

I do not want us to get into a situation where every women is pushed down the route of having an ELCS either, for either health, cost or scheduling reasons - again because of the implications on individual physical or mental health reasons.

What is important is that we have a discussion about the ACTUAL pros and cons of a planned VB v a planned ELCS (as the OP said she wanted to do - despite her ignorance on this subject) and how the risk of each is not equal for every woman thus it is important to approach this on a case by case basis rather than a blanket VB is best OR an ELCS is best attitude.

I can only say what is/was best for me. I was an older mother, in a stable relationship, suffering from a history of anxiety, only wanting one child (so a very low risk of issues in subsequent pregnancies) and able to demonstrate my understanding of the risks involved. The chances of me needing an EMCS were significant already based on my age. The chances of me needing medical intervention with a VB were significantly higher than being able to have one without. This is massively different to a 19 year old, not in a relationship, who wants multiple children and isn't fully aware of the risks of an ELCS. I certainly would hope that someone in this situation would be steered away from an ELCS because its a completely different situation and there are completely different concerns at play.

It's my opinion, you're infuriated by it. Sorry about that but here we are

Damn right its your OPINION. Based on a crock of shite and nothing else.

Sorry if I dismiss it as such.

You need to not poke your nose in. Just because you’re related, it doesn’t give you the right to tell her how to give birth. I’ve had a normal birth that went wrong and an elective. The elective was the best thing I have ever done. Having gone through both, Why people give birth naturally is beyond me...